Cleave - Automatic hits on 2nd target?

[Mort_Q]

quick question: if the weapon is a +2, or if the char has focus, cleave still only does str mod to the baddy right?

Correct.

 

[DracoSuave]

You don't have to be restricted to one character doing this tactic, but several with similar powers where they aim for weaker creatures in order to hit the stronger, particularly when the main creature is weakened.

A group of players X failure damage does not make success damage.

Pitiful damage is pitiful damage, and players aren't miniony and have huge numbers to add up to anything meaningful

 

[James McMurray]

If the unthinkable happens and the enemy boss is getting beaten down because of cleave, couldn't he just walk away from the minions surrounding him? The OA won't hit, because if they could hit him with normal attacks they wouldn't be resorting to subpar cleave strategies. A minion can then shift into his place and the leader can throw rocks at the PCs until they fall over dead.

 

[DracoSuave]

If the unthinkable happens and the enemy boss is getting beaten down because of cleave, couldn't he just walk away from the minions surrounding him? The OA won't hit, because if they could hit him with normal attacks they wouldn't be resorting to subpar cleave strategies. A minion can then shift into his place and the leader can throw rocks at the PCs until they fall over dead.

or the leader could eat his minions!

 

[James McMurray]

Or throw them at you like bombs.

 

[Spikenog]

If it's not been asked...

Is it true that "Minions" would not be effected by cleave or reaping strike? Thought I read that you must roll to hit them...at work and do not have the books here to check.

 

[AuraSeer]

No. Minions are immune to damage from a miss, but not to damage that didn't require a roll.

For instance if you have some power that does 100 damage on a hit and 50 damage on a miss, it will only kill a minion if you hit with the attack roll. But if you have a power that does 1 damage and always hits, no d20 needed, it will kill a minion every time.

 

[Reed]

I think it could be neat to have an encounter where you have a defender type main villain that is near impossible to hit and you have to kill him by indirect (auto-hit) fire. He could "summon" minions every round. Fluff it up however you want. There are number of effects that work like this. It changes things up.

 

[Ninja-to]

That's a good point. If this particular situation came up and as DM it really bugged you, well it really isn't going to matter if you houserule it. If the party's defender isn't focusing on keeping the BBEG busy, and instead has the nefarious plan of hitting him with 5 splash damage per round, you'd probably be doing him a favor to say "Houserule, that doesn't work" to keep him from wasting his time and getting the party killed.

So since it really doesn't matter, by all means feel free to say "splash damage from cleaving minions can't hit Elites" or somesuch. I don't think it's at all necessary, but either way isn't going to change the overall outcome.

That's a good point. I guess if all else fails you could do that. Maybe it won't be necessary after all.

 

[erik_the_guy]

You could interpret the legitimate targets rule on page 40 (DMG) as meaning that you cannot target a weakling to hit a difficult target with cleave damage. Cleave is meant for killing minions, who tend to be found in groups, which tend to have the same AC. Chances are that the non-minions surrounding a minion have better AC. If PCs target creatures who they think have lower AC in order to hit a minion with higher AC then this will be a rare occurrence. Killing a minion is hardly gamebreaking.