D&D 5E (2024) Cleave+GWM Feat

[FrogReaver]

@Zardnaar
It’s probably more balanced with other styles to not let GWM damage bonus apply to the cleave attack.

However it’s probably more fun and closer to player expectations to have it apply.

The rules are a bit ambiguous but seems to me that 2024 explicitly notes anything done as part of the attack action and so I would say the most defensible RAW reading is no since cleave doesn’t explicitly state it is part of the attack action.

 

[Horwath]

I play it simple:
extra attack is part of the action that triggered the attack, unless it is specifically stated otherwise.
So Cleave and Horde breaker are part of Attack action, Bonus action or Reaction that triggered it.

 

[Zardnaar]

@Zardnaar
It’s probably more balanced with other styles to not let GWM damage bonus apply to the cleave attack.

However it’s probably more fun and closer to player expectations to have it apply.

The rules are a bit ambiguous but seems to me that 2024 explicitly notes anything done as part of the attack action and so I would say the most defensible RAW reading is no since cleave doesn’t explicitly state it is part of the attack action.

Yeah ive seen every player with it struggle adding things up.
. Personally I record it like this.

Attack +7 1d12+9
Hew +7 1d12+5
Cleave +7 1d12+1

Raging+2
Frenzy +2d6 first strike

Also seen issues with Nick and vex. Kinda confusing for newer players (newer being not me basically).

 

[ECMO3]

EK using truestrike at 7th?

Yes, you would get GWM in this case assuming Truestrike is a "Wizard spell" for you and you are using the attack action to cast it.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yes, you would get GWM in this case assuming Truestrike is a "Wizard spell" for you and you are using the attack action to cast it.

Yeah that was my conclusion as well.

Haste attack would also benefit.

 

[BigMac75]

Been trying to relearn D&D after many years away. My son is playing a Bladelock character and I am struggling a bit to understand the action economy when stacking proficiencies and feats. I was thinking that maybe visualizing this as Pseudo-code might help (I think it does). For most this is probably overcomplicating things but it helps me see it written out in more detail. Does this seem correct (this is with STR 18, Prof Bonus +2, using Greataxe)?

// START TURN
CleaveUsed = false
HewReady = false

// ACTION: Attack
Attack Roll > If hit Deal(1d12 + 4 +2) // STR + GWM
if (Crit || TargetDrops) HewReady = true
if (!CleaveUsed && SecondEnemyInRange)
. CleaveUsed = true
. Attack Roll > If hit Deal(1d12 +2) // no STR, yes GWM

// BONUS ACTION: Hew
if (HewReady) Attack Roll > If hit Deal(1d12 + 4) // STR
if (!CleaveUsed && SecondEnemyInRange)
. CleaveUsed = true
. Attack Roll > If hit Deal(1d12) // no STR, no GWM

// END TURN

 

[BigMac75]

FWIW - DPRCalc does not apply proficiency bonus to the Cleave attack (can see this in the lower bonus on damage for Cleave attack). I agree that the wording of the various aspects of this seem to suggest that your proficiency bonus should be added to the Cleave attack (if it occurs in your attack action) but just passing this along in case it is interesting.

I also think you should maybe get another Cleave attack on an Opportunity Attack or Reactive Strike if you get one during the round since that is no longer your turn (it happens on your enemies turn).

Above is an analysis of a Lvl 12 Warlock with both Polearm Master and Great Weapon Master as well as Weapon Mastery in Halberd (their Pact weapon). By Level 12 the Warlock has 3x attacks w/ Pact Weapon by taking Thirsting Blade and Devouring Blade. This also assumes a very high Charisma modifier since my son rolled a natural 18 when creating the character. Also assumes advantage on 1st attack (flyby familiar). Lastly, Hew or Polestrike Bonus attacks are really an either-or although the system is showing it as an offhand attack (I know there are no more "offhands" in D&D but it helps me keep track of the hands) - Anyway, I think this is how selecting between those two bonus attacks should work (probably not gonna get BA 100% of the time but that is what I used). My frequency of applying the conditional attacks is probably high but this site finally helped me understand how all these Feats worked together. It uses your D&D Beyond character so I was able to level up the character and play with feat selection to see how it affected DPR calculation.

 

[BigMac75]

I play it simple:
extra attack is part of the action that triggered the attack, unless it is specifically stated otherwise.
So Cleave and Horde breaker are part of Attack action, Bonus action or Reaction that triggered it.

Do you think you can get a Cleave attack on both your Attack Action or Bonus Action AND on a Reaction / Opportunity Attack? Reactions / Opportunity Attacks happen during an enemies turn (i.e., do not happen on your turn) or is everything you do in a round considered "per turn"?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Do you think you can get a Cleave attack on both your Attack Action or Bonus Action AND on a Reaction / Opportunity Attack? Reactions / Opportunity Attacks happen during an enemies turn (i.e., do not happen on your turn) or is everything you do in a round considered "per turn"?

View attachment 429751

Anything you do on your turn is, shockingly, on your turn. Anything you do on some else’s turn is not on your turn.

 

[Horwath]

Do you think you can get a Cleave attack on both your Attack Action or Bonus Action AND on a Reaction / Opportunity Attack? Reactions / Opportunity Attacks happen during an enemies turn (i.e., do not happen on your turn) or is everything you do in a round considered "per turn"?

View attachment 429751

once per turn means that, if you use your cleave on your turn, either action or bonus action, you cannot use it until the end of your turn. That means that you can use it again on your reaction if your reaction is outside your turn.