Cleave on an AoO?

[Nail]

So, what's the big deal as to whether it happens on an AoO or regular attack? I'm confused by this point.

Excellent question.

As I've said before, cleave (et al.) is a classic way to get the "reality monkeys" outta th' closet.

 

[green slime]

But it is all still so horribly hypothetical.

It relies on a fiercesome melee combatant facing hordes of lowlife scum + one worthwhile foe, all within reach, and somehow, silly enough to all trigger near endless amounts of AoOs.

 

[Mistwell]

But it is all still so horribly hypothetical.

It relies on a fiercesome melee combatant facing hordes of lowlife scum + one worthwhile foe, all within reach, and somehow, silly enough to all trigger near endless amounts of AoOs.

I agree with you. And over the years, I have learned that it is the most hypothetical questions, the questions least likely to actually come up in a game, that tend to create the most amount of controversey in this forum. Somehow, probability of it being an issue is rarely as important to many folks as probability that they will feel they won a rules arguement over an obscure hypothetical

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I look at it this way: Fighter and sorcerer are fighting side by side. The sorc tries to cast a spell and the dragon reaches over and bites off the head of the sorcerer, spraying a fountain of blood and bone all over the fighter who flinches. There's your opening and the dragon cleaves the fighter.

Works for me.

Ruleswise, this is no less contrived than the invisible lemmings.

If you posit that simple examples that seem reasonable prove the generalization, then I will simply argue with simple examples that seem unreasonable to disprove the generalization. And we get nowhere.

Rules by their nature will always imperfectly emulate a complex situation. The bottom line for me is that I think the game is more fun if we encourage provoking AoOs rather than the opposite, and therefore this is a corner case best removed. That is an opinion based on my personal experience. YMMV.

 

[green slime]

I agree with you. And over the years, I have learned that it is the most hypothetical questions, the questions least likely to actually come up in a game, that tend to create the most amount of controversey in this forum. Somehow, probability of it being an issue is rarely as important to many folks as probability that they will feel they won a rules arguement over an obscure hypothetical

True, true. So where does that leave me? Stuck out in the wasteland formerly known as "within reason"?

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

But it is all still so horribly hypothetical.

It relies on a fiercesome melee combatant facing hordes of lowlife scum + one worthwhile foe, all within reach, and somehow, silly enough to all trigger near endless amounts of AoOs.

It can easily get pretty weird looking once you add in Reach IMHO. My experience says this is not "horribly hypothecal". YMMV.

 

[green slime]

It can easily get pretty weird looking once you add in Reach IMHO. My experience says this is not "horribly hypothecal". YMMV.

I can understand your position. I just can't see it coming up that often, that the mooks are soooo easily sliceable, and all so crowded together, while the BBEG is also just standing around waiting to get hammered. Even with reach.

 

[phindar]

If anything, its a pretty good reason for the BBEG to order his mooks to the side and declare This one's mine!

 

[Nail]

It can easily get pretty weird looking once you add in Reach IMHO. My experience says this is not "horribly hypothecal". YMMV.

...and mine does, FWIW.

I've been gaming 3.xe....6+ years?....with 5 different groups, as both player and DM.... And I've *never* seen a Cleave off of an AoO. Ever.

I've also read *alot* of story hours. And I've read about a cleave off of an AoO once, maybe twice.

So.

What.

 

[phindar]

I think like most things in the rules, it doesn't bother anybody until someone makes a character that exploits it, and then it may or may not prove to be unbalancing.