Cleric contradiction

[Faceless]

Hey guys, I'm fairly new to this site (great resource!), and to 3rd Edition. Anyways, I was perusing the player's handbook and I'm a bit stumped by an apparent contradiction in the cleric description. On p. 31, under the "spells" subheading, it says that a cleric "may prepare and cast any spell on the cleric spell list, provided he can cast spells of that level. (Alignment restrictions mean that casting some spells may have unpleasant consequences.)" This seems to indicate that a cleric COULD theoretically cast spells that are in opposition to their alignment, but with some "unpleasant circumstances," whatever that would be. However on the next page, it flat-out states that a cleric can not cast spells of an alignment opposed to his own or to his deity's.

Is this a contradiction? Or is there an explanation somewhere else that explains the whole "unpleasant circumstances."

Thanks for any clarifications you can provide.

 

[Crothian]

The unplesent circumstances is your god destroys you

They just can't cast those spells

 

[Umbran]

If you want to be technical, you could say that certain spells are excluded from the cleric's list. A Good Cleric cannot cast a spell with an [Evil] descriptor, so those spells are simply nbot on his list, for all intents and purposes.

If so, this would mean, then, that he also cannot use scrolls or wands of said spells.

 

[da chicken]

I think the passage more reflects the idea that even beyond the idea that clerics cannot prepare spells of an opposed alignment, a cleric must still use spells to promote their god.

For example, a cleric of Pelor might find that repeated castings of inflict spells or spells with the [Darkness] descriptor results in loss of spell abilities. Pelor is the god of sun and healing, and purposely acting against that idea will likely annoy him eventually.

Also, some players and DMs like to consider inflict spells, [Death] descriptor spells, and spells like poison as non-good spells, meaning a good deity may not grant unlimited access to those spells. Remember, the cleric requests the spells and the deity grants them. The cleric above might suddenly find every spell slot filled with light or cure minor wounds as a slight hint.

 

[Xarlen]

Well, I would say 'Poison' would be a neutral spell, because Poison is Not evil. That's like penalizing the cleric for asking for a Flame Strike because it hurts people.

Although, I'd be willing to reason that Poison is not Lawful, thus Pelor may not grant it.

Also, consider clerics of aligments that is a confliction of their god. Some gods can be evil, neutral, or good. But due to the aligment rules, there can be clerics of good, neutral, or evil alignment worshiping roughly the oposite one. A Good cleric of an Undead god can cast Animate Dead, but likely it's going to start corrupting him. A good cleric who asks Pelor for Harm, though, or Evil spells, may get a divine boot up the butt.

 

[pontus]

A Good cleric of an Undead god can cast Animate Dead, but likely it's going to start corrupting him.

Sorry but he can't. Both your alignment and the alignment of your god impose limits on what spells you can cast.


And for the rest of the discussion, unless a spell flat out says it's Evil it aint. Your god won't give you any hassle about what spells you use as long as you don't use them in way that conflicts with his dogma. And if you do that, well, you're going to need an atonement.

 

[da chicken]

Well, I would say 'Poison' would be a neutral spell, because Poison is Not evil. That's like penalizing the cleric for asking for a Flame Strike because it hurts people.

I didn't say poison was evil. I said it was non-good. Neutral at best or evil at worst. And I also said only some DMs and players play like that, meaning it is just a not uncommon house rule.

Also, consider clerics of aligments that is a confliction of their god. Some gods can be evil, neutral, or good. But due to the aligment rules, there can be clerics of good, neutral, or evil alignment worshiping roughly the oposite one. A Good cleric of an Undead god can cast Animate Dead, but likely it's going to start corrupting him. A good cleric who asks Pelor for Harm, though, or Evil spells, may get a divine boot up the butt.

A cleric must be within one step of his deity's alignment, and a good cleric of a neutral death deity still can't cast spells with the [Evil] descriptor, even animate dead (see PH, pp 31-2).

 

[jgbrowning]

well

a god grants the cleric spells.

the cleric doesn't get to chose, so he cant get spells his god wont give to him, so yes a good cleric of a death god cant cast animate dead because its evil.

personally i dont like the one alignment step away cleric stuff. why would a god support someone who doesn't believe the same way he does? and really a true neutral god? he'd have 5 of the possible 9 alignments in the universe allowed to worship him... seems fishy to me.. like it was just an excuse to not make the PHB have a real listing of gods. dunno

joe b.

 

[Archer]

Your number of worshipers affects your powers as a deity so you overlook a few deviances from your ideal to be more inclusive. A diety of one isn't much of a diety.

 

[Umbran]

Your number of worshipers affects your powers as a deity ...

Not necessarily true. The core rules don't specify where a deity's power comes from. Your justification holds for worlds where a god's power does come from the number of worshippers, but does not for worlds with different cosmologies.