Cleric - Holy Warrior or Healer?

[mkill]

I've never been a fan of the Cleric. Conceptually, I'd rather have something like the 4E Paladin as a Holy Warrior of any deity, and the AD&D Priest as the divine spellcaster in robes, with powers strongly defined by his deity and faith. Both classes would have some healing, but it's not their main job (unless you pick your powers that way)

If I get these two, I don't need the Cleric. It's a weird mix of stuff that never had a compelling flavor. You don't want to shed blood, so you smash skulls instead? Gimme a break, you hypocrite.

 

[Ichneumon]

I firmly believe that the 1e Cleric existed so that the mace would have some purpose being on the weapon list. Paladins only showed up if the DM was kind on the stat rolling and the player didn't mind toeing the LG line, so they didn't interfere with the cleric's shtick all that much.

These days, with roles gone, paladins being as chooseable as any other class, and the Priest around the corner, it's hard to justify the cleric's place. The only solution I can think of, for now, is to define clerics as the god guys (and gals), and shift paladins away from representing deities towards representing virtues. We've already seen paladins like this in Essentials, so it wouldn't be a major change. In play, I'd make clerics good at protecting others while fighting, and slant paladins towards being one-on-one challenge kings, much like the knight class from 3.5.

 

[Ainamacar]

He should be the best divine representative he can be, one who cultivates the abilities and methods favored by his deity in addition to the special favor that is divine casting.

I would like the class features of the cleric to emphasize spellcasting, small spontaneous miracles, and otherwise serve as a framework on which to hang the cumulative effects of 2-3 domains/spheres. If a cleric chooses War then he gets the weapon and armor proficiencies to help him excel in that way, hit points to help him last, and access to spells (but perhaps not so many per day) that favor direct action and sound strategy. If he also focuses on Secret Knowledge then he gets no addtional weapon or armor proficiencies and only a small bonus to hit points, but broad access to lore, divination, and some manipulative effects. Such a character would excel as a divinely-inspired strategist or crusader after lost relics.

On the other hand, a cleric of War and Strife might resemble a barbarian or berserker in battle, while one focused on Luck and Secret Knowledge might be a carefree sage with more spells.

Finally, I might package these domains/spheres as themes, so that the same structure serves full-classed clerics, multi-classed clerics, lay devotees, and other divine casters that may crop up. I'm not convinced the cleric/priest split is necessary, although I see the Paladin as quite distinct from either (although it might also have a place for domains/spheres).

 

[tlantl]

I always saw the cleric as the martial arm of a church or other religion. They are not holy warriors but they could be. They aren't healers, but they could be. They represent their gods in many ways. I use them in a variety of ways in my game world. Some are thieves, harlots, physicians, warriors, and clergy. Some can heal others can't, some crusade others don't.

I don't see the question of one or the other being the only valid answers. They are both or they are neither. I guess in games where the PC is little more than a figure on a board where he is used as a chess piece in a never ending battle they could be seen as one or the other, but as people living in a dangerous and demanding world space they are often far more than that. They are representatives of the most powerful beings in existence. The embodiment of ideals and ethics, or evil personified. Certainly not curomatics or healbots.

I imagine that because the cleric is traditionally the guy with the cure spells they are often relegated to the role of healer. I have rejected that thinking many years ago. I like to give the players alternatives to relying on one player for their healing. If a group has a cleric that has no access to healing spells, then they are going to have to use other methods of healing.

 

[Li Shenron]

What is in your opinion, the primary function of the cleric? A holy warrior who smites his enemies with divine power or a healer?

In the context of the PC party, which is what I think this poll is about, the primary function is that of a healer.

In the downtime, it would depend more on the individual and the deity's religion, and as such the "primary" interest could be a lot of different things.

 

[FireLance]

What should be a cleric's most important attribute? Wisdom.

What should be a cleric's most important role? The wise man.

IMO, being a warrior and/or a healer is secondary to this. The basic function of a cleric is to be an intermediary between mortals and the gods. To know the teachings and tenets of the gods (or his specific deity), and translate this into basic, everyday advice and guidance for those around him.

This would include, but is not limited to: giving advice on the right course of action, providing comfort and encouragement when doing the right thing seems hard, and inspiring conviction and fervor when necessary.

The distinction between clerics and paladins (to me) is subtle, but important: clerics tell people what is the right thing to do, but paladins show people what is the right thing to do. Clerics are the preachers, paladins the living examples. (Arguably, this would mean that Charisma should more important for a cleric than a paladin. Interesting thought, eh? )

 

[Spinachcat]

I am not a fan of 2e, but 2e did clerics best.

The cleric should be an avatar of his god, reflecting the aspect of the god in his powers and abilities. AKA, clerics of Thor should be far different than clerics of Apollo.

One of the cool things about the OD&D cleric was that he was the Paladin and not the Healbot. He armored up, fought with his mace and had a few spells - but healing were the least interesting.

 

[Lanefan]

Cleric: holy warrior or healer?

Yes.

Lan-"and many other things besides, depending on deity, player, and setting"-efan

 

[underfoot007ct]

I'm with thedungeondevler. The Cleric is the most rounded, versatile member of the group.

If I had a party of three guys, all the same, and had to pick which class, it would be Cleric, hands down.

Three clerics, level for level, top three fighters, three magic users, or three thieves.

I'm with Niccodaemus & thedungeondevler, & the others.

I would like see If the 5E Cleric could be built each way having different options. Then no matter which edition you favor, you can build a Cleric in that fashion. Then everyone could be happy.

 

[Charleois]

Both at the same time like in 4e