Cleric - Holy Warrior or Healer?

[Kaodi]

Healer: Cleric or Witch?

 

[Spatula]

I know not everybody will agree with this but I really think it's important to make the Paladin and Cleric as distinct as possible from each other. In certain editions, they are too much alike in fluff and mechanics.

I agree with this.

The paladin is the holy warrior. The cleric's role could be "healer" but more thematically should be that of a priest. One who interprets or speaks for their deity. The practitioner of holy rites. The leader of the faithful. The glue that binds a community together.

Clerics should be able to smite their enemies, but it should be through channeling divine power, not by strapping on armor or cracking skulls. (what about clerics of war deities? they multiclass into fighter and sacrifice some spellcasting for martial prowess) The cleric-as-holy-warrior not only steps on the paladin's toes but is a wildly inappropriate baseline for the class that represents every single faith.

 

[BobTheNob]

(To OP. Sorry, I dont see a pre-defined role...after 4e I have decided I hate roles)

I have always liked clerics. Just the theme of the holy one appeals to me (I said it...theme!).

The statements made in this about the "priest" (i.e. the robe wearing holy man) and the paladin being the "holy" variations I agree with, but as much as I think this a better solution, unfortunately cleric's have been part of canon lore of D&D since basic, so I don't thing the plate wearing, mace wielding type is going anywhere.

The other idea about religious affinity not being defined by class but by theme is an intriguing take as well and one I have thought on many times, but we keep coming back to "If we change it too much, is it still D&D?"

 

[harlokin]

Why not both?

It would be nice if there were enough options within the Class to play your Cleric as principally a caster, or as a warrior with a little bit of divine magic, or anything in between.

 

[Lord Zack]

The cleric should be (and has previously been) what people want the paladin to be until it became it in 4e. Originally the cleric didn't even get any spells until second level!

 

[CRKrueger]

The only possible answer:

Depends on the god.

 

[Aldarc]

This is not about what the 5e cleric should look like, but what you think about when you hear the term cleric. The poll is tied at 26 all atm. That's hardly 5 out of 6.

So that's what this is about? You're upset about being the one out of six? A number of people have posted that the intent of the question is unclear. Even after you have indicated the intent of your question, there are still people who are posting about what they want the 5e cleric to model. Don't you think that would skew the results? Yet if you were to ask the standard gamer and non-gamer, who is familiar enough with D&D concepts, I think most would associate the cleric with "healer" over "holy warrior," as the cleric is generally in demand as a party member for being the former and not the latter.

 

[CM]

So that's what this is about? You're upset about being the one out of six? A number of people have posted that the intent of the question is unclear. Even after you have indicated the intent of your question, there are still people who are posting about what they want the 5e cleric to model. Don't you think that would skew the results? Yet if you were to ask the standard gamer and non-gamer, who is familiar enough with D&D concepts, I think most would associate the cleric with "healer" over "holy warrior," as the cleric is generally in demand as a party member for being the former and not the latter.

Agreed. A better wording for the poll would have been:

"In your personal experience, is the traditional D&D cleric class most often seen as..."
A. Holy warrior
B. Healer

 

[Aldarc]

Agreed. A better wording for the poll would have been:

"In your personal experience, is the traditional D&D cleric class most often seen as..."
A. Holy warrior
B. Healer

Even then there remains a fundamental problem: option A is the perceived flavor, while B is the perceived function, so they are not mutually exclusive (see Lanefan). Players may perceive the cleric as being a "holy warrior," but then expect that what being a "holy warrior" means is that the holy warrior will be the party's walking band-aid and healbot. Or the cleric may be perceived less as a "holy warrior" and more as a "holy priest." While these terms are not mutually exclusive either, the difference is the emphasis between cleric as warrior and cleric as priest. So what is the OP primarily concerned about? People's perception of the cleric's primary flavor or people's perception of the cleric's primary party function?

 

[howandwhy99]

Didn't vote. Even if my PC was both of those he'd still be less than half a cleric.

For reference sake, here's some paraphrasing and quotations from the AD&D PHB:

“This class of character bears a certain resemblance to religious orders of knighthood of medieval times.” “A cleric is dedicated to a deity, or deities, and at the same time a skilled combatant at arms.” They may be any Alignment except TN depending upon the alignment of the deity the cleric serves. “All clerics have certain holy symbols which aid them and give power to their spells.” “All are likewise forbidden to use edged and/or pointed weapons which shed blood.” “All clerics have their own spells, bestowed upon them by their deity for correct and diligent prayers and deeds.”

The main purpose: a cleric serves to fortify, protect, and revitalize. This is demonstrated by the spells available. They have a limited number of attack spells, some are reversals of curatives. “All spells must be spoken or read aloud.” Ability to wear armor, carry effective weaponry, and engage in hand-to-hand combat (melee) with a reasonable chance of success.

Ability to Turn away (or command into service) Undead and less powerful Demons and Devils. These include: ghasts, ghosts, ghouls, liches, mummies, shadows, skeletons, specters, wights, wraiths, vampires, and zombies (see MM). The matrix is for the DM only. Typically effective against undead not greater in HD than cleric’s level. Demons and devils require a high level cleric.

“Only humans will normally have clericism as their sole class; they are the only clerics with unlimited advancement.” Combat is in 3 steps of ability. Saving Throws in 3 steps of ability too. Magic Item use includes: most potions, clerical and ‘protection’ scrolls, most rings, some rods, staffs, and wands, many other magical items, and all non-edged, non-pointed weapons; also all magical armor, and shields.

8th level = Patriarch or Matriarch. The cleric automatically attracts followers if a place of worship is established. 2000+ square foot floor with alter, shrine, chapel, etc. These followers are fanatically loyal and serve without pay as long as same deity and / or alignment does not change. They number between 20-200 (2d10 x 10). Some will be men-at-arms; the type and number of all are relayed by the DM at the appropriate time.

9th level = High Priest. The cleric has the option of constructing a religious stronghold. The fortification must contain a temple, cathedral, or church 2500+ square foot ground floor. It may be a castle, monastery, abbey, or the like. It must be dedicated to cleric’s deity. Construction cost is ½ because of religious help. If the cleric clears the surrounding territory and humans dwell within, there will be monthly revenue of 9 SP / inhabitant from trade, taxation, and tithes.