Cleric vs. Favored Soul

[Dorloran]

I'm starting a new campaign and am wondering about clerics vs. favored souls. In the campaign, the gods won't grant spells to clerics--rather, certain "Chosen" (re: favored souls) are imbued at birth with divine power, having been chosen by a particular god. They are the only ones who can cast divine magic.

We've never run favored souls in our games before, and I am wondering if you could help me out?

Is the favored soul a viable campaign alternative to the cleric class?
How balanced is the favored soul vs. the cleric? Overpowered? Underpowered?
I'm suspecting that the two classes would fill different party niches? What has been someone's experience in this regard that has run favored souls or had them in their campaigns?

Thanks!

 

[Nonlethal Force]

In my experienced, the FS is not as powerful as the cleric. But then again ... few are. So I don't thinkl that is really a valid point.

The favored souls can fill a niche completely - they can't fill 3 or 4 niches like the cleric can. That's an honest appreciation of the FS, btw. In my book the cleric is too broad because of its access to all spells. But then again, I am the person who would rather see sorcerers than wizards, too. So I admit to being biased.

The FS is usually a very good melee combatant. They have enough spells known to know the healing spells, the summoning spells, and 2-4 other spells per level. If you don't like the summoning spells, you get 3-5 spells per level! There is enough flexibility to make then useful to a party - especially since they can do the healing thing.

The other thing that I like about FS is that they cannot turn undead. It makes undead lethal again, especially lower level undead. Speaking of turning, however, the FS does not gain the use of divine metamagics if your campaign would ordinarily allow it. That could be signficant.

Basically, my advice would be for a FS to pick a niche and fill it fully. They are a blast to play, in myopinion. Good luck.

One more thing - FSs are easier to play than clerics because there is no "spell selection" debate. They are quicker to run because there is seldom need ot look up spells. For newer players, they are fun because even if they do heal (assuming they take the healing spells at some levels) they still have plenty of other options witht he remainder of their spells. It is easy for a new player to pick up a Favored Soul and run with it.

 

[Thanee]

The biggest point is, that Favored Souls get no turn undead, which - if you have no Clerics - would only be available to Paladins (if those are around, that is).

Of course, Favored Souls have a limited spell selection and are usually a bit more martially oriented (they don't get Weapon Focus and Specialization for nothing), but can otherwise quite easily provide the party with healing and buff spells. They do not quite have the potential of the Cleric to whip out whatever spell is needed in the situation, because they don't have the complete spell list, but they do have a decent number, so they are not that limited.

I think they are about on par with the Cleric, maybe slightly weaker, but not much.

As a house rules, it's a pretty good idea to allow them access to the deity's domains, that is, they don't get the domain powers, but they can learn any spell that is listed on any of the deity's domains. This will help to differentiate them a little between each other.

Bye
Thanee

 

[0-hr]

I've played a favored soul for a few months and my impression of them is that they are a bit too underpowered compared to a cleric. The spontaneous casting is really nice but I feel that there are too many downsides balancing that out (so you have a big net loss).

My main area for comparision is looking at a sorceror compared to a wizard. What does the sorceror lose? A bonus metamagic feat every five levels and scribe scroll, but some skill choices.

The favored soul loses turn undead, domains, and heavy armor. They get a slightly better weapon choice (like sor vs wiz) and some decent bonus class abilitites. That seems to be about balanced.

But the real kick in the teeth though is needing BOTH wisdom and charima to be a good spell caster! What other core caster needs two stats for their spells? Unless you are using a really hight point buy (or rolling your stats when the DM isn't looking) you are not going to be a good caster and a good warrior.

I'm enjoying my favored soul quite a bit, but we've house ruled them to be just charisma casters. I would find them annoyingly underpowered otherwise (as in anyone would play a cleric instead, unless they were specifically forbidden).

 

[TheNovaLord]

we are in a 32 point campaign at the moment and everyone is LG/NG in alignment and are all 'knights' and have just reached 5th

their is a cleric, a FS, 2 pal, a scout and a ranger

I think thus far the FS and the scout outshine the rest. the FS seems a combat monster (he hasnt gone for summoning like most folk seem to, so has magic stone, PFE, vigor, and now bulls strength. Is a monster with his greatsword and letheal with a sling (he is a wood elf and has 18 and 18 dex, with 6 int and 10 wis and 14cha i think). Ok he will never cast offensive spells at others but that means he can buff himself and others no end, and heal as needed. He has few skills obviously. Bull Str especially got weakend in 3.5 but being able to cast it almost every combat per day (with PA and cleave as his feats) is great.
He has superb refex save v the party human cleric which saves a lot of hp and therefore healing spells.

i think if he could use a feat to take 'turning undead' 1+CHA per day even he will utterly outshine the cleric. Id therefore say he is as balanced as any character can be to the cleric

He is alos played very well by the player as someone who has no idea where he is going, or why, but is driven by soem unseen force.

the party paladins look very weak in melee next to him

This is the only FS i have ever seen so maybe i am naive?

JohnD

 

[Jarrod]

We had a Flavored Soul in the party. They were fun, but started running into problems with the "status-reversing" spells. Remove Paralysis, Remove Curse, Remove Blindness...

Their spells known aren't enough for them to cover all of the "get this guy better" spells. You can hit the Cures pretty easily, but the rest are tougher. It's the same problem the Sorcerer has when arcane spells start getting divided into pieces.

... Which gives me a solution if we ever have another one of them getting played. Recombine the "fix it" spells, probably by level, and let them take the entire per-level set at once.

Oh, and the dual-stat bonus spells/DC thing sucks. I'd just make it straight Charisma all the way.

 

[Thanee]

My own Favored Soul PC is pretty similar. Low Wisdom, zero offensive magic. Almost exclusively combat feats. Works really well.

Don't think she's too powerful, but certainly not weak.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Infiniti2000]

That's the main problem, less (or no) curing. Having a cleric in the party does not lend itself to a suitable analogy for the OP. The loss of all the important clerical spells is non-existent. Without a cleric, though, the FS absolutely has to burn a spell known per level on the curing spells (perhaps swapping it out later). If he doesn't, then the most important party niche is vacant and the entire group will pay the price.

I'd suggest you give the FS one more spell known per spell level, and require it to be a cure-type spell (e.g. cure N wounds, remove paralysis, remove fear, etc.).

 

[Thanee]

You don't really need that many cure spells... two or three spells to heal hit point damage (over all 20 levels) are enough (with some upgrading), and you will need a few of the more common condition removals (i.e. Restoration), but that's it.

A Favored Soul, thanks to more spells per day, can really heal as well as a cleric, even without optimum spell choices for each available level.

Bye
Thanee

 

[brendan candries]

A FS that takes augment healing and the PHB2 variant will outheal most clerics (Radiants of Pelor/Initiates of Ilmater might do better).

It's indeed a challenge to cover all bases as status effects go with a limited spell selection. Don't forget you can swap out spells. e.g. Once you have heal, you can drop remove blindness, remove disease, neutralize poison and more.

Although a cleric has a cure for all conditions, most of the times this comes as a morning-after pill. Not so with the FS. Both can compensate with scrolls/wands.

What also hurts though, is the one-level delay on spell progression and the uselessness of pearls of power.