Clerics with no gods

[Storminator]

One of the things in the 3.0 rule set that made me switch back to D&D after years of other games is the non-deity-specific clerics.

I *love* that you can play a cleric of an ideal instead of a deity.

This has a lot to do with my own personal faith and philosophy, but without getting intot he taboo area of religion, I feel that a person creates his or her own faith, that the form of worship is mutable on a person to person basis, and thus that deities are, if anything, the offspring of faith, not the other way around.

Thus, if there is enoughf aith in something, a deity may arise. But if the faith in question includes that there is no deity as such, then there will be no deity.

This is important to me personally, because I am a very spiritual person with a very strong faith, but you won't find anyone else with the same faith as mine. Divinity is within all mortals, we have but to seek it. Obviously this spark of the divine exists in many game-world versions of mortals, as they have the ability to ascend to being deities.

I guess what I'm getting towards is that I can't hold that some *icon* of faith has more power than faith itself. Thus believing is the source of divine magic, not what you believe in.

(And this is also the one gaming topic that I seem to disagree most with a majority of those I usually agree with - such as Crothian and Psion - but again, I'm sure this has a lot to do with the differences in our own faiths)

This is very much like my primary religion in my PBeM. The collective faith of the worshippers defines the nature of the deity.

And since the priests are out converting new folks with very different beliefs, they are fundamentally altering their own god without realizing it!

PS

 

[Gentlegamer]

Due to this fact, I am still waiting for SOMEONE I know to run D20 Modern so I can play a cleric of money. He'll be a rapper who wears a giant golden $ around his neck. Gives new meaning to "worshipping the almighty dollar".

Such a character's diety would be Mammon . . .

 

[Khayman]

In one maritime campaign, I have designed a character who is a cleric of the sea --- he venerates not one power, but invokes the names of every fricking sea god, elemental lord, drowned demon, or kraken overlord in an attempt to weasel his way to survival.

Think of Benny from The Mummy, wearing five holy symbols around his neck.

 

[Gentlegamer]

In one maritime campaign, I have designed a character who is a cleric of the sea --- he venerates not one power, but invokes the names of every fricking sea god, elemental lord, drowned demon, or kraken overlord in an attempt to weasel his way to survival.

Think of Benny from The Mummy, wearing five holy symbols around his neck.

Excellent! I like it!

 

[Endovior]

Hmm. I haven't personally seen clerics of an alignment before. I once was playing in a group containing an evil cleric who didn't care about any gods... except as people who'd grant him spells. He switched gods 3 times in 5 sessions, as I recall. That being the case, I'd rule that a cleric of an alignment is just that... he doesn't serve any one god... but he does call out to a variety of like-minded individuals scattered throughout the planes, and some of them grant him powers (as with Khayman's cleric).

 

[Clavis]

Personally, I always liked the idea of godless clerics. In my Campaigns they are called Philosophers, and instead of spontaneously casting healing spells, they can spontaneously cast Divination spells. Otherwise, they are mechanically identical. Some Philosophers recognize the existance of dieties, but do not serve them. Other Philosophers are atheistic, sometimes violently so. This concept works for me because I have always made it very unclear in my games whether or not the Gods objectively exist.

I compliment the atheistic Philosophers with a Paladin-like class called the Iconoclast. Basically, they're militant secularists who wage war on all religions and Outsiders, good or evil. They are basically like Paladins in most respects, although all Paladin abilities that relate to evil or the undead are changed to effect Outsiders. Due to their commitment to Free Thought they are also immune to Enchantments, and can remove Enchantments from others. Naturally, it is against their Code of Conduct to ever receive aid of any form from a Divine source, or fail to undermine religion whenever possible.

To atheistic Philosophers and Iconoclasts, all Outsiders are regarded as the enemy, because they try to trick humanoids into worshipping them. The Gods, if they exist, are no more than very powerful Outsiders, but certainly did not create the Universe, nor do they control its forces.

 

[kolikeos]

they don't like the whole "worship a god" thing?

that's me, i hate worshipping a god! i rarely play a character that follows any diety.

Is the non-god cleric an acceptable character?

in games i dm, no. clerics are always priests of some god or the other.

 

[scourger]

I've seen it a couple of times, from the same player. He's not a real min/maxer, although I think those rules are susceptible to munchkining. It would be great to pick the 2 domains you really want with the alignment you really want to avoid the alignment & deity straightjackets. I have no problem with it. A former DM previously in our group didn't allow, but the Forgotten Relams has plenty of options to allow as slippery a character as need be.

 

[VirgilCaine]

Due to this fact, I am still waiting for SOMEONE I know to run D20 Modern so I can play a cleric of money. He'll be a rapper who wears a giant golden $ around his neck. Gives new meaning to "worshipping the almighty dollar".

You know they don't have clerics in D20M, don't you? They have like, an "acolyte" prestige class or something.

(Do note that this is a restriction only for the RPGA's Living Greyhawk campaign; AFAIK, it isn't a general restriction for the Greyhawk campaign setting.)

I know that, I was just wondering why anything Greyhawk would be like anything FR, that's all.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

I have also surprisingly allowed a Godless Cleric into my campaign

A player in my game has decided to take the godless cleric option. Normally, I would hesitate with this but he explained it nicely so I thought: cool.

Quite simply, he gets his clerical powers from somewhere - he himself does not know where. He might try to find out as he takes his spiritual journey in the campaign but it is something I will not enforce upon him. It might end up being a particular deity or even some type of ancient "force" but in the end, I have not as yet made up my mind.

What does he do for a holy symbol though? Is it just a representation of his domains or is there something nice and generic that would be suitable?

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise