Clerics with no gods

[Stormborn]

A player in my game has decided to take the godless cleric option. Normally, I would hesitate with this but he explained it nicely so I thought: cool.

What does he do for a holy symbol though? Is it just a representation of his domains or is there something nice and generic that would be suitable?

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

Unless there is some ancient symbol for "Life" or "good" or whatever in you campaign world I would say let him use an icon representation of his domain.

 

[HellHound]

religion is a subject too rife with possibility for epic stories to allow it to fall by the wayside

But spirituality and faith is not rife with possibilities for stories?

 

[Campbell]

I have no interest in portraying or allowing in my games non-religious clerics--religion is a subject too rife with possibility for epic stories to allow it to fall by the wayside. Check out Sepulchrave II's Tales of Wyre story hour to see what I mean.

Of course a case could be made that by verifying the legitmacy of a Cleric's religion that some of the possibility for epic stories involving religion is taken away. I'd argue that being absolutely certain that my abilities were granted to me by a diety would make most matters dealing with faith and religion realatively uninteresting since I can reasonably ascertain through the use of certain spells explicitly what my god wishes of me. While I also enjoy Sepulchrave's story hour, largely what grasped at my heart strings about Eadric's tale was the Oronthon's distance from the hearts of the faithful, and the differing ways in which his priests interpreted his silence.

 

[Psion]

By the RAW, a cleric does not *have* to worship a deity. How often do you see this concept played?

Never, since I don't allow it. It seems to me just an out for players who don't want to make themselves part of the setting, which is not a playstyle I enjoy.

 

[ForceUser]

But spirituality and faith is not rife with possibilities for stories?

You're splitting hairs. Besides, as I've said, I have no interest in non-god clerics. Religion is mankind's flawed implementation of God's will. It is the flaws inherent in humanity's struggle for faith that makes for interesting stories.

 

[Diremede]

Since alignment is such a central force in the D&D universe, it is no problem not to worship a specific god. Clerics can be servants of alignment, just as many gods are.

Well in my games there is no alignment, so it isn't much of a central force at all, we play with a moral compass system, which basically allows for individual and unique personallities. While there is still a concept of "good" and "evil", it is not clearly defined by an alignment and thus all the alignment spells have been adjusted, but thats another topic. As for clerics with no gods, I don't see it as a problem. The clerics in our current campaign vary depending on their moral compass. Those who worship the benevolent and "goodly" ways of the world such as peace, love, justice, etc. worship what are known as the gods. There are also clerics who worship the elements; earth, fire, water, etc. Then there are clerics who worship outerplanar beings such as demons, devils, aboleths, and other outsiders.

So I agree with your comment for the most part Clerics can be servants of alignment or moral idea that may or may not be represented by a god.

 

[Morte]

If I were to play D&D, I wouldn't mind playing a cleric "because the party needs a cleric", but I don't really want to play a religious character. So I guess I'd prefer the "no deity" idea.

I'd be pretty underwhelmed if I offered to play cleric as a favour to the group, and then some nose-in-the-air GM said "I don't allow blah blah".

 

[ForceUser]

If I were to play D&D, I wouldn't mind playing a cleric "because the party needs a cleric", but I don't really want to play a religious character. So I guess I'd prefer the "no deity" idea.

I'd be pretty underwhelmed if I offered to play cleric as a favour to the group, and then some nose-in-the-air GM said "I don't allow blah blah".

I think we're coming from different perspectives. It's not about being snobbish, but about creating a living, breathing, literary world wherein the group are more a collective of storytellers than a beer & pretzels group of hack-n-slashers. In such a pardigm, where story is the most important element, the role of the cleric as healer (mechanics) is secondary to the role of the cleric as spiritual figure (story). Thus, if you offered to play the cleric in my campaign but had no interest in role-playing a spiritual or religious person, I'd kindly thank you for the offer, then encourage you to explore a role more suited to your tastes.

 

[Quasqueton]

An island priest who reveres the volcano as a supernatural force. Takes the earth and fire domains.

A tribal priest who draws power from the ancestors. Takes the luck and divination domains.

A demon-worshiping priest who gains spells from various demon lords. Takes the chaos and evil domains.

An aasimar cleric who draws on his heritage for spells. Takes the healing and good domains. -- Heck, you could even use a human cleric that does this, and say he is too far decended from the celestial host to be an aasimar, but can still tap into that heritage.


Quasqueton

 

[ForceUser]

An island priest who reveres the volcano as a supernatural force. Takes the earth and fire domains.

A tribal priest who draws power from the ancestors. Takes the luck and divination domains.

A demon-worshiping priest who gains spells from various demon lords. Takes the chaos and evil domains.

An aasimar cleric who draws on his heritage for spells. Takes the healing and good domains. -- Heck, you could even use a human cleric that does this, and say he is too far decended from the celestial host to be an aasimar, but can still tap into that heritage.


Quasqueton

Absolutely. But all of these are examples of systems of belief (also known as religions). The volcano is a god of fire, ancestor worship is often associated with animism, and to an evil cleric, a demon lord who grants spells is for all intents and purposes the same as a deity--he has an ideology and expects from the cleric adherance to that ideology, worship, and the putting forward of his evil agenda. The only one I'd nix IMC is the aasimar example--an aasimar of celestial heritage has even more reason to worship (though IMC, celestials are themselves the servants of divine powers).