Clerics

[Eltern]

I've heard many, many times that clerics are pretty durn powerful. However, I am running Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, in which every baddie is a cleric, and they just suck. Now, I -know- this is me. Why? Because I don't know how to really make the best use of all their abilities. For instance, say, a 14th level cleric against a 6-person party. They could be 4 levels lower, and they still pretty much own the cleric. This has happened. Please, oh please, tell me what I am doing wrong I know that clerics big help is buffing spells, and I use a few, but if the cleric is caught unawares, he can't get off many of these before blade barrier seems like a better choice, or just smacking the PCs.

So what are some in general cleric tactics? Oh, and if this doesn't belong on this board in particular, tell me and I'll move it.

Thanks,
Eltern

 

[Staffan]

The cleric isn't all that good offensively, with the exception of things like Harm. The problem is that the cleric makes a very good PC, with great defensive abilities (heavy armor, protective spells, great saves) and some stuff that helps the entire party. However, a loner cleric isn't all that fun, especially the ones in RttTOEE who don't have all that useful domain powers for NPCs (most have an elemental domain, and turning/rebuking elementals isn't a very powerful ability against most PCs, and the madness ability isn't all that hot either).

 

[Hypersmurf]

Why is the cleric being caught unaware? Scrying. Minions and guards. Alarms and traps. Divination and Commune.

Why is the cleric fighting alone? Minions and guards. Summoned creatures or Planar Allies. Lesser clerics.

In a real emergency, where the cleric is caught completely unprepared - it only takes one round to cast Ethereal Jaunt and walk through the wall. Then he gathers his minions, casts all his buffing spells, summons his Planar Allies, and comes back.

It's his Temple. It's his home territory. He knows the map, he knows where to pick up more allies. The PCs are on their own.

It shouldn't be a case of "Your grace, the adventurers are here... it's time for your 2pm Fight to the Death..." If he's caught on a field not-of-his-choosing, then change the damned field.

-Hyp.

 

[shilsen]

Even if he's taking the party on alone, a 14th lvl cleric should be an extremely tough encounter, esp. against 10th lvl PCs, just because of the number of options.

For damage purposes, he would have access to Blasphemy (no save, targets automatically dazed for 1 rd and lose 2d6 Str for a few rds) and Destruction (die or take 10d6 dmg), not to mention a 14d6 Flame Strike, Slay Living, and Harm.

For melee combat, he should already have a couple of Magic Vestments and a Greater Magic Weapon up. For getting out of there fast he should have a Word of Recall and Ethereal Jaunt.

Heck, just cast a Deeper Darkness spell and True Seeing, and the PCs are in a whole lot of trouble.

And that's just a couple I came up with in 30 seconds. If you really sit down and consider some strategy, your PCs are toast.

 

[Pax]

I've heard many, many times that clerics are pretty durn powerful. However, I am running Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, in which every baddie is a cleric, and they just suck.

There you have it, themodule designer(s) suck at making good, effective cleric encounters. Looks like they didn't take the advice of the folks who responded before I did.

Now, I -know- this is me. Why? Because I don't know how to really make the best use of all their abilities. For instance, say, a 14th level cleric against a 6-person party. They could be 4 levels lower, and they still pretty much own the cleric.

That's at least partially a lack of you saying "Hmm, the evil cleric has X, Y, and Z spells that'd last all day if he cast them ... so he probably DID cast them, several hours ago!"

This has happened. Please, oh please, tell me what I am doing wrong I know that clerics big help is buffing spells, and I use a few, but if the cleric is caught unawares, he can't get off many of these before blade barrier seems like a better choice, or just smacking the PCs.

14th level cleric? I'll restrict myself to the PHB for a moment:

Fire domain:
Wall of Fire; pop this up between you and the approaching PC's on round one, it'll make the fighters and rogues carefully reconsider charging to close range. And you'd be within yoru rights as GM to deal the fire damage to the arrows (which, being wooden, should take FULL damage form fire -- destroyign them, even +5 arrows, in the process ... 2d6+14 isn't a small amount of damage, for an arrow to suffer!)

Water Domain:
Acid Fog; drop this around the PCs on round 1. It deals small amounts of continuing damage (thus prompting concentration checks from all spellcasters who don't get out FIRST), and like Solid Fog, cuts movement by 90%.

Earth Domain:
Wall of Stone; put up a wall, with an arrow slit, around yourself. You get 90% cover, and can step back to avoid melee attacks through the slit, too.

Air Domain:
Wind Wall; the best anti-archer spell there is.
Chain Lightning; blast the fighter witht his, and tage the other 5 as secondary targets. You'd still have 9 more secondary options, to handle familiars, animal companions, paladins' steeds, and summoned creatures.

Evil Domain (just guessing here, but it IS the ToEE ...
Create Undead; haul in a slew of incorporeal undead to harrass the spellcasters and archers.
Magic Circle vs Good; goes without saying
Desecrate; DUH, it's a Cleric inhis own temple, I'm SURE there's an altar or statue of their faith in the AoE ... double effects! Which, btw, works nicely with Create Undead, above.

General Cleric:
Refuge; do this ahead of time, it's a damned good way to haul in allies in an emergency.
Repulsion; prevents the big-but-dumb fighter types form getting too close.
Greater Dispelling; strip the party of those buff spells!
Geas; Geas that big-but-dumb fighter to go whack hsi archer buddy! THIS SPELL ALLOWS NO SAVE!
Forbiddance; makes a hallway unavailable to the entire party, should you want to flee.
Unhallow; again, this is a Cleric in his home temple! The whole place should be blanketed with Unhallow spells, constantly.
Greater Command; you can get the whole party with this one. Have your minions poised to strike beforehand, and ... potential TPK.
Spell Resistance; 10th-level PC casters should have FITS, when they encounter yur SR26 cleric ... !!! 3/4 of all their spells just FIZZLE, heh!
Spell Immunity; even better than Spell Resistance, if the cleric has any brains (meaning, if he's been scrying the party, and knows their favorite spells).
Greater Magic Weapon; 5-10 Warrior(1) mooks with GMW'd bows and 10-20 (each) GMW'd arrows, will give the PC's somethign OTHER than the cleric, to think of.

So what are some in general cleric tactics? Oh, and if this doesn't belong on this board in particular, tell me and I'll move it.

Thanks,
Eltern

Clerics are, far moreso than WQizards, creatures of "BE PREPARED". IOW, most of their spells are buffs, and many of them laast for hours and hours.

Which means, most of those spells shoudl be up and running long before the PC's even break camp each morning. I'd assume any spell which would last 12 or more hours, is precast.

For the others -- Persistent Spell is actually better for a Cleric, than for a Wizard or Sorceror, IMO.

A few good precast spells for a Cleric(14) in his own temple would be:

Magic Vestment (duration 14 hours), on armor; 3d level
... +4 enhancement bonus.

Magic Vestment (duration 14 hours), on shield; 3d level
... +4 enhancement bonus; with above, potentially +8 AC!

[Persistent] Shield of Faith (duration 1 day); 5th level
... +4 deflection bonus to AC for the day.

Desecrate (duration 28 hours); 2d level
... harder to turn undead, profane bonus to saves for undead, bonus hp/HD for undead
... the whole AREA should count as an "altar, shrine, or other permanent fixture dedicated to yoru deity, pantheon, or aligned higher power" ... for double the benefits!

Unhallow (duration: instantaneous, meaning, it only needs to be cast ONCE, ever ... and cannot be dispelled!); 5th level
... profane penalty to turning
... a single spell effect can be fixed to the Unhallow area as well. say ... Doom on non-followers of the ToEE. Or Darkness on the same people; Silence, affecting averyoen but servants of the ToEE; and so on.