Cloak of Minor Displacement & friendly spellcasting

[shilsen]

I had a situation come up in my game recently when the PCs were in the middle of a fight and someone tried to cast a Heal spell on the paladin. He was wearing a Cloak of Minor Displacement and I had the caster roll against the 20% miss chance. Which he failed, much to the amusement of everyone except the paladin's player.

So, I'm wondering, how would you rule in such a situation?

 

[KarinsDad]

I would rule the same as you and actually, have had a similar situation with Cure spells and our current PC Sorcerer who has the same item.

Ditto for Mirror Image.

This is the correct ruling. Displacement and other such spells do not distinguish from friend and foe. Now, a PC with Displacement could ready an action to touch the ally trying to touch him and do so successfully when it gets cast, but without such preparation, the PC casting the touch spell has the same chance of missing as enemies do.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Same thing happened in my campaign this weekend. Cleric tried to cast a healing spell on a wizard who had cast mirror image on himself.

I ruled it the same way you did. Roll to see which image you hit (without the penalty of blowing the image away). I'd say you got it right.

Edit: Different spells but the same basic rules issue.

 

[shilsen]

Thanks for the feedback. It was a quick off-the-cuff ruling, but (as KarinsDad put it) the item/spell not distinguishing between friend and foe was the basis for it. Since the PC's not dodging his ally he can be touched without requiring an attack, but he can't change the fact that he's not exactly where he seems to be.

Anyone else care to chip in?

 

[Piratecat]

Yep, I would have ruled the same way. We've had this happen before with a ring of blinking.

 

[Furby076]

I am said paladin

Given that piece of information, I think then any touch spells (including beneficial ones) needs to be affected by a users touch ac. So if joe wants to heal bob, and bob has a 25 touch ac, then joe needs to make a touch attack. Remember, this is combat, when you are moving around trying to dodge attacks you don't have time to stand still and wait for someone to heal you - or if its not your turn you can't change your defensive stance to "stand and wait to be touched".

There are a lot of assumptions in DnD. For example - how does a haste spell know the difference between friend or foe? How does horrid wilting know?

 

[wolff96]

Given that piece of information, I think then any touch spells (including beneficial ones) needs to be affected by a users touch ac. So if joe wants to heal bob, and bob has a 25 touch ac, then joe needs to make a touch attack. Remember, this is combat, when you are moving around trying to dodge attacks you don't have time to stand still and wait for someone to heal you - or if its not your turn you can't change your defensive stance to "stand and wait to be touched".

The issue isn't you dodging his hand -- it's you not being where you appear to be. I would have (and did, in the past) rule the exact same way. Unless the caster is running an illusion-piercing vision mode such as Blindsight or True Seeing, then you have to check against Displacement.

There are a lot of assumptions in DnD. For example - how does a haste spell know the difference between friend or foe? How does horrid wilting know?

Neither spell knows. The caster knows and targets accordingly.

And by the way: Horrid Wilting is X targets, no two of them more than 60' apart. It doesn't differentiate friend from foe either.

 

[shilsen]

I am said paladin

Given that piece of information, I think then any touch spells (including beneficial ones) needs to be affected by a users touch ac.

I hadn't planned to go that far, but since you want to propose that rule ...

So if joe wants to heal bob, and bob has a 25 touch ac, then joe needs to make a touch attack. Remember, this is combat, when you are moving around trying to dodge attacks you don't have time to stand still and wait for someone to heal you - or if its not your turn you can't change your defensive stance to "stand and wait to be touched".

As noted by wolff96, in this situation the target dodging or not isn't the factor. The target not being where the caster thinks he is, however, is a factor.

There are a lot of assumptions in DnD. For example - how does a haste spell know the difference between friend or foe? How does horrid wilting know?

They don't. The caster decides. If you use a haste spell on your party and one of your buddies is invisible, you can't include him among the targets, since his spell affects the perceptions of both friend and foe. If your buddy has fire shield up and you try to touch him to heal him, I'd say you take the damage, even though the spell description refers to attackers. Similarly, if you're displaced, your buddy has a bit of a problem in touching you.

 

[kjenks]

Touching your buddies is automatic

SRD
===
Touch: You must touch a creature or object to affect it. A touch spell that deals damage can score a critical hit just as a weapon can. A touch spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit. Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch as many willing targets as you can reach as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell.
===

That last sentence implies some level of cooperation from the "willing targets." I'd say that if you're touching a willing target, you can touch him automatically, since these rules for touch spells don't specify that you must hit the willing target's touch AC. This same concept of a cooperative recipient would mean that you can automatically touch a willing target who is blurred, displaced or has concealment.

But it depends on your DM: Exactly how cooperative is such a willing target? Can he reach out an elbow (or whatever) and tag your hand as you try to tag him? That's what I call cooperation.

 

[azhrei_fje]

I don't think "willing target" extends to automatic, ie. non-suppressable, effects created by magic items.