Close Quarter Fighting vs. opponent w/ Reach

THEBIGLOU

First Post
Can a PC w/o reach get an AoO when an opponent w/ reach and Improved Grab (or like ability) makes a grapple attempt?

IMHO it can be looked at in two ways. 1. You do not get an AoO if
you do not threaten the opponent so this feat doesn't work. 2. They
must come into your square (or you into theirs) during the grapple so
you still do get the AoO.
 

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OPTION 2.

Clearly, because there is no way to grapple someone from a distance. you have to get into the square of the opponent.

There would be a OPTION3: You hack away at the Arm / Tentacle / Jaw of the creature / character with reach and damage it in the process of it trying to get a grip on you, same as without reach.
 

During a grapple, IIRC, the AoO is provoked when the grappler makes the intial touch attack on the creature to "grab" him. During that initial touch attack, if the opponent does not threaten the thing trying to grapple him, he gets no AoO. After he's grappled, the opponent then does move into the other's square, but at that point, the AoO chance is gone.

someone correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I recall.
 


Hmmmmm... so no consensus as of yet :(...

They should have mentioned it specifically within the feat. There were some other AoO feats like Karmic Strike that they did get specific.

Any other opinions?

THEBIGLOU
 

On top of that, the Improved Grab ability that most monsters possess specifies that:

"deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a feww action without provoking an AoO. No initial touch attack is required".

Thus, you NEVER get an AoO against a creature with improved grab - unless the monster's ability differs from the standard Improved Grab ability.

I could envision a feat which ALLOWS you to take an attack of opportunity against a grapple attempt, regardless of whether or not the creature in question usually gets one without provoking an AoO.

For Example:

Wrestler [General, Fighter]
Prerequisites: Combat Expertise, BAB +4
Benefit: Whenever an opponent attempts to start a grapple with you, the attempt always provokes an AoO from you, even if the opponent has an ability which allows them to attempt a grapple without provoking an attack of opportuniy, such as Improved Grab. You are allowed to take this AoO even if you do not currently threaten the opponent, as long as the opponent is attempting the grapple with natural weapons. The opponent does not provoke an AoO if attempting a grapple with a tool, such as a net, or garrot attack. This represents your ability to hack at the opponents tentacles, claws, or other limbs as they try to snake around you. You also gain a +2 competence bonus when attempting to break free of any grapple.
Normal: Creatures with Improved Grab or other abilities normally do not provoke attacks of opportunity, and you may not take attacks of opportunity against creatures you do not threaten, even if they perform an action that would provoke one otherwise.
 
Last edited:

Murrdox,

If a creature with Improved Grab attacks a person with the CQF feat and a within their threat range, they would get an AoO.

It says in the feat (I don't have the exact wording in front of me) that if the opponent does not have Improved Grab the grapple attempt automatically fails. If they do have Improved Grab or similar ability then you add the damage you do you in the AoO to the grapple check.

THEBIGLOU
 

I would say that the CQF fighter gets the AoO even if the foe has reach and he doesn't. For one reason, most foes with Improved Grab also have reach so the feat wouldn't be too useful if it didn't work that way. For another, logically (ahh yes, the word that means there isn't a legitimate argument from the letter of the rules), the creature has to Improved Grab WITH something. And if that appendage is close enough to grapple, it's close enough to be hit.
 

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