Close Quarters Fighting and Reach

[kjenks]

The same concept applies when a human tries to grapple an imp (Tiny Outsider) in an adjacent square. In grapple step 1, the human provokes an AoO, but the imp doesn't threaten the human so he can't make that AoO.

 

[Sithobi1]

Actually, just grappling does not provoke an attack of opportunity; however, when you grapple you must move into your opponent's square, so for small and larger opponents, you are leaving a threatened square, so you provoke. For Tiny or smaller, you do not provoke because you do not leave a threatened square.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Not true, Sithobi. Starting a grapple when you don't have the Improved Grapple feat most certainly does provoke an AoO.

Moving into your opponent's square provokes another one - just not from your target.

EDIT:

To add:

Step 1: Attack of Opportunity. You provoke an attack of opportunity from the target you are trying to grapple.

...

Step 4: Maintain Grapple. To maintain the grapple for later rounds, you must move into the target’s space. (This movement is free and doesn’t count as part of your movement in the round.)
Moving, as normal, provokes attacks of opportunity from threatening opponents, but not from your target.

 

[Kemrain]

(This movement is free and doesn’t count as part of your movement in the round.)

I never realised that a fighter with 4 attacks who successfully grappled a different opponent with each attack, and then made a 5 foot step, could move 25 feet and still make 4 attacks.

- Kemrin the Amused.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I never realised that a fighter with 4 attacks who successfully grappled a different opponent with each attack, and then made a 5 foot step, could move 25 feet and still make 4 attacks.

Can't do it.

Once you grapple a guy, you have two options. Either you move at no cost into his square and are grappling (in which case you are grappling, and can no longer attack any creature who is not grappling), or you drop the grapple, and you don't move into the opponent's square.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Can't do it.

Weee-ell...

... you could potentially do it if all four opponents had readied actions to break the grapple after you moved into their square.

-Hyp.

 

[Barendd Nobeard]

Thanks for all the input.

The text of the feat says, "You gain an attack of opportunity..."

It seems to me that the purpose is to negate the grapple, or increase chance of resisting the grapple if the grappler has a special ability which normally prevents an AoO. Since it does not mention reach, I'm leaning toward "no AoO when the grappler has greater reach than the target."

Just to confuse it a bit, the example uses an ogre trying to grapple Tordek. If only they had mentioned Reach!

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Weee-ell...

... you could potentially do it if all four opponents had readied actions to break the grapple after you moved into their square.

True; I hadn't thought of that. Be a pretty odd situation, though ...

 

[Balord]

I think that having the Close Quarters Fighting feat DOES allow you attacks of opportunity against opponents trying to grapple you, even if those opponents are out of reach. The reason I think this is because a grapple attempt is not like a normal attack where the opponent's weapon (sword, claw, etc.) darts in, tries to hit you, then darts back out. An opponent trying to grapple you is attempting to GRAB HOLD of you. Even if your opponent is out of reach, whatever it is using (tentacle/appendage/etc.) to grab you with is within your reach and STAYS within reach because it is GRABBING ON TO YOU AND NOT LETTING GO. A tentacle lashing out like a whip to smack you in the face obviously won't provoke an attack of opportunity because it doesn't stay around long enough for you to get a free shot. A tentacle that tries to wrap around your leg and hold you is a different story. That tentacle is there within reach because it does not want to let go. Close Quarters fighting lets you chop that tentacle off you before it can get a good hold.

Whoever came up with this feat surely had this in mind. If CQF was useless against creatures with a reach advantage on you, it would be pretty useless altogether considering that most creatures who try to grapple with you do have a reach advantage.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Balord:

When I am fighting you, you better believe my sword blade spends more time in your square than it does in mine.

I don't believe the designers had in mind the ability to hit and damage something you couldn't normally hit with a regular melee attack.

Moreover, CQB doesn't permanently harm the opponent in the same way that normal fighting doesn't permanently harm the opponent - there's no cutting off of tentacles in either CQB or normal fighting, so that example is right out.