Clubhouse: The Shearing Pen

[Gansk]

Some good ideas there, Greybar.

1) The victory zone solution sounds like the best idea so far. I like it a lot!

2) I understand your point of view about the blade barriers. I'm tempted at this point to keep things the way they are and see how well creatures with SR and a lot of hp cope with the situation.

3) The last idea I wanted to reserve for the next battle. Choosing opponents that are 4 or 5 CR's less is not really going to solve anything. The hordes of NE just have to thin themselves out until they are lean and mean enough to take on St. George.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I need St. George to kill 17 opponents to get to equal footing with NE's greater numbers.

If greater numbers is the problem, that the solution should involve it. There should not be a chicken draw rule to solve some other problem. The NG/NE combat should have been a draw with St. George spending 4 rounds buffing up the elemental (without tremorsense, he would not find the dragon). It's incredibly stupid for the dragon to stick around and fight, knowing he'll lose. It's not a question of whether he has an attack that works (and he doesn't), but that by this point, NG combatants are so powerful, it's much better to obtain a draw at every single opportunity.

So yeah, I'm tempted to h***... I mean Heaven... to start layering blade barriers and summoning as many allies as I can, and buffing them all to the limit, 'cause I figure I'll need them.

Exactly, because that's a smart tactic. And yet your opponents in NE are forced into incredible stupid tactics. You're handed an advantage in the arena rules.

And I expect that NE will do everything it can to force St. George and later combatants to be thrown out by draws.

Actually, NE will not do that because they can't do that. If they could, St. George would already be out. It was the fact of a draw and the idea that we could see what we were facing before entering that made it barely tolerable to fight General Rumble.

I didn't see many people, if anyone, stepping in to help with that (except for the lack of books issue). Maybe it was because I checked more often, but I'm not sure about that.

Tha said, If we want to get rid of walls, I'll trade out another 6th level spell like Harm to replace the blade barriers.

I have no problem with putting up blade barriers or walls of fire. I have a problem with forcing a combatant to go through them. I see no reason why someone should be forced to impale himself to enter the arena. As another example, if you could put up a wall of stone, the opponent could not even enter. In that case, Gansk ruled that it would be a draw. Why can't I choose not to enter through the blade barrier and similarly get a draw?

 

[Greybar]

I have no problem with putting up blade barriers or walls of fire. I have a problem with forcing a combatant to go through them. I see no reason why someone should be forced to impale himself to enter the arena. As another example, if you could put up a wall of stone, the opponent could not even enter. In that case, Gansk ruled that it would be a draw. Why can't I choose not to enter through the blade barrier and similarly get a draw?

Where the blade barrier is now is a one-time effect. I think I'd be up for a rule that you only can have one such wall/impediment up at a time.

On a semi-related note:
I don't think you should feel constrained to have Homey come up if I can't reach him. If you felt you had to do that, I'm fine with rewinding to when he slipped down into the earth and having Rocky see if he can stumble upon him. (It is crazy that earth elementals technically can't sense anything in their home element, isn't it)

On the other hand, I'm willing to swap sides with you and run NE if you need a break. I'll be willing to pick up where we are, and we can swap if you want. If the TBoAA isn't being fun for you, then there's no reason to ask you to keep doing it - since that's the whole point.

 

[ugulu]

Liking the victory zone. Or maybe make it like the ropes in 'rasslin' - as long as you touch the zone once every 5 rounds there is no draw - so a land-based guy may run back and forth through it just to "tag", while a flyer will have to likewise drop down to touch at least the roof - with the overall "no damage for 5 rounds" still in place as the draw requirement. A burrower would have to surface once every 5 rounds, and a flyer would have to touch it. Though...that is getting a bit record-keeping-intensive.

Other idea: what if the eastern and western 5' of the arena were anti-magic zones, preventing barriers along the out-edge?

Edit: maybe "magic suppression" zone would be better - no effect on ongoing magic, but would prevent new magic (so someone who is invisible could move through with no effect, but no creating barriers. Or non-magical: have a set of steps up into the arena at 60n, with the top 15' inside the edge - you couldn't wall off the entry then (at least as easily) - you could still walk in level at any point, or you could come in below the level of the arena and come up the stairs.

 

[Gansk]

Liking the victory zone. Or maybe make it like the ropes in 'rasslin' - as long as you touch the zone once every 5 rounds there is no draw - so a land-based guy may run back and forth through it just to "tag", while a flyer will have to likewise drop down to touch at least the roof - with the overall "no damage for 5 rounds" still in place as the draw requirement. A burrower would have to surface once every 5 rounds, and a flyer would have to touch it. Though...that is getting a bit record-keeping-intensive.

I'm not sure how just touching the zone to avoid a draw encourages anybody to slug it out for at least a couple of rounds (which I think is the goal). I prefer that the monster has to remain in the zone for a full round or lose.

Please keep the ideas coming! I will be on vacation from Sunday to Tuesday, so when I come back we will retrofit the arenas after the current combats are completed.

Here is my proposed arena so far (I might as well go all out with the terrain changes):

1) The southern 20 foot strip of the arena is semi-loose soil that runs 120 feet deep. On the surface of the soil is enough grass to use for entangle and plant growth-type spells. Any burrowing/earth glide creature automatically has tremorsense as an extraordinary ability.

2) The SW and SE corners of the arena have two trees growing from the soil. The trees are 10 feet in diameter and have a climb DC of 15. The tree trunks are 100 feet tall, but smaller branches covered with leaves extend from the top of the trunk, forming a 20 foot cube on the two corners of the arena. These branches can support creatures of large size or smaller and the leaves provide concealment.

3) Jutting from the north wall to 80N40E40Z is a 40 foot square plate of adamantine, supported by 1 foot diameter adamantime pillars at 80N40E and 80N80E. The floor underneath this roof is the victory zone. If one combatant remains (at least partially) in the victory zone for 5 rounds without the other opponent staying (at least partially) in the victory zone for one full round, the first combatant wins. If a draw condition and a victory condition occur at the same time, the victory condition takes precedence.

4) The northern 20 foot strip of the arena, on each side of the victory zone, is a 120 foot pit filled with fresh water.

5) The rest of the arena floor is solid stone going 120 feet down.

6) The eastern and western edges are walls of force. Each side can watch the battle and make decisions based on what they observe inside the arena. To enter the battle, a creature must teleport to an empty space at zero elevation as a move-equivalent action. To leave the arena, a combatant must tap on the wall of force where his side is watching the battle three times in succession as a free action. Panicked opponents will remember to tap, but they may pick the wrong side of the arena (they will not run past an enemy they fear to get to the right side). Confused opponents will not remember that they need to tap.

Please feel free to pick holes in this set up!

 

[Greybar]

Good stuff - I like the teleport in and tapping out.

Note: don't forget to specify the depth of the water.

I do hope someone can put together an image for the map of the arena so I can keep all of the features in their correct place and make sure I don't have a combatant run full tilt into a tree.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Those look really good, Gansk.

1. I like the addition of the plants, but I'm not sure how useful it will be to convince an opponent to stand on it. Also, what range of tremorsense?

2. Intriguing.

3. I like it. I especially like the concept that the fight need not occur there. In fact, I would guess that most fights will not occur there unless one combatant or the other cannot otherwise 'take it' to the other.

4. You should allow the water put to extend underneath the victory zone. Although a creature underneath it doesn't benefit from the victory zone itself, it would provide access from one side of the arena to the other.

5. Acceptable. No dungeon-like tunnels or caves?

6. I really like this modification. It nerfs confusion a lot, which is good for arena combat. I still don't like the immense boost in power that fear has in the arena combat, but admittedly I'm still reeling from rilmani nightmares.

One tactic I immediately realized would be for St. George the planetar to sit in the victory zone and 'wall' himself in with blade barriers. With the 40ft height, that will be difficult, though.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I do hope someone can put together an image for the map of the arena so I can keep all of the features in their correct place and make sure I don't have a combatant run full tilt into a tree.

I use Excel, but it's not so great on modeling Z. Maybe someone can write a program to model it? That'd be sweeeet.

 

[Gansk]

Tremorsense is 60 feet. The grass has more validity in low-level combats, but you never know.

You're right, the stone floor above the water should only be 10 feet deep and the pits should be connected. Otherwise the water comes all the way up to (a couple of inches below) floor level.

We could make the victory zone an antimagic field to avoid obstacles taking up all the available space. Any buff spells on a large or larger creature still take effect if any part of the creature is outside the anti-magic field. I don't know if we want teleportations directly to the victory zone to be legal.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Actually, I was thinking that the victory zone would have a floor that is adamantine. That way, you can't burrow/dig underneath it to get a free draw.

As for obstacles in the arena, I'm thinking we might want to do something. I'm not sure what. Perhaps give any new combatant the ability to dispel any single (non Su) effect that is not on a creature (or a creature itself). So, I could dispel the blade barrier and then run inside, but I couldn't dispel the elemental or any of the existing buffs on my opponent and I can't go hog wild dispelling everything in the arena (unless I can dispel normally). This would also get rid of the stupid windstorm.