D&D (2024) Collage of Dance Reveal

[FrogReaver]

I now want to make a Dance Bard, who pretends to be a wizard, named Magic Mike. (Feat: Polearm Master)

Would Grappler be more thematic?

 

[ART!]

I'm glad we've kept the title of this thread "Collage of Dance Reveal". It tickles me.

 

[CapnZapp]

Of course, so does the complexity and the chance of broken or trap combinations. For example, the EK is built with classes extra attack is part of the base kit and would not work right on a class without that feature. Everything would have to be fitted to work with many different classes and that means that the power budget gets very thin.

Sorry, you are arguing "it's too difficult, just give up". And please don't pick examples that might well be better suited to remaining a single-classed subclass. The idea was never to open up all sub classes, only some of them. (And some only to classes sharing the same "power source"*)
*) using a 4E term for want of a better term for "martial or divine or arcane".

The facts remain:

• limiting your choice of subclass to only those for that specific class is needlessly specific in many cases, and allowing a player to pick one or three subclasses for each other class greatly increase the game's option space, making many many more and varied character builds possible. There's no reason to just assume a competent rules developer can't adjust to avoid egregious optimization highs and lows
• making a single choice at low level that persists and can't be changed all the way up to level 20 is a noticeable rigidity in the system, one that could easily be solved perhaps just by simply cutting each subclass in two*.

*) the most direct if crude rule to get this idea across: "at level 12 you may switch subclass. From this moment on, you simply take subclass features from your new choice."

 

[CapnZapp]

I'm glad we've kept the title of this thread "Collage of Dance Reveal". It tickles me.

Here's a collage of dance, revealed:

 

[jayoungr]

The value is a MUCH richer option space when it comes to selecting your subclass.

I'd rather have fewer, well-defined and flavorful (official) subclasses than a bigger but blander array. For D&D, at least. For infinite mix-and-match, I'd rather just go with a classless point-buy system.

But then imagine subclasses only taking you from, say level 3 through level 11. At level 12 it's time to choose again, now between prestige classes (and yes, some of them could easily be made available for more than one class).

I don't have to imagine it. I've played D&D 3.5 and Star Wars Saga Edition.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

But then imagine subclasses only taking you from, say level 3 through level 11. At level 12 it's time to choose again, now between prestige classes

Have you looked at Shadow of the Demon Lord / Weird Wizard?

The class system works by you picking base class at lv1 (from 4 base options), then an Expert class at lv3 (from 16 classes), then a Master class at lv7 (from 64 classes). They get increasingly specific as you go, and each of the three classes keeps getting new abilities as you level up.

And there's nothing preventing a Warrior/Berserker from picking up Chronomancer as their Master class.

 

[CapnZapp]

I'd rather have fewer, well-defined and flavorful (official) subclasses than a bigger but blander array.

Who's talking about bland subclasses?

Look, if you simply dislike my suggestion simply say so. Then there's nothing to discuss.

 

[jayoungr]

Who's talking about bland subclasses?

Not bland subclasses. Bland classes, because they'll be so heavily modified by portable subclasses (and, in your expanded version, prestige classes as well).

Look, if you simply dislike my suggestion simply say so. Then there's nothing to discuss.

I don't hate it as an idea for a game somewhere. I've just been explaining from the beginning why I feel that it works against some of the strengths of D&D specifically.