Pathfinder 1E Collective thread for Paizo problems

[amaterasu]

Hi Y'all,

Hearing the news about Amazing, putting them together with the posts from Paizos message boards regarding the European subscriptions of Dragon and the Dungeon magazines gives me a VERY bad feeling. Since I learned from the Paizos board that a lot of subscribers have problems with delivery of their magazines, I think it is time to worry about the money all the subscribers have transfered to Paizo. I would like to make this thread a place to collect all further evidence about Paizo stoping operations and getting advice from people in the US with a legal background how to cancel a subscription and getting the money back.
I asked everyone who is not getting their magazines they've paid for to post to this thread, so that we can establish an overview of the situation and approach (i) Paizo (we should give them a last chance), (ii) Wizards and (iii) Hasbro collectively with this issue.
This thread is NOT for bitching about Paizo. This thread is for identify the scope of the problem, organize folks with the same problem and make an united approach to solve it. So, please keep your posts fair and try to help to solve the problem.
First issue to address: So far the delivery problems seems to be limited to continental Europe. Any subscribers from the UK or North America, who got their magazines in the last three to four months?

 

[jester47]

Fulfillment in europe seems to be the only difficulty Paizo has. This has baffled the last two operatoers of the magazine.

One problem domesticly with delivery is that apparently (this may just be my point of view) it seems like the postal system in the US has slowed down.

Distribution by mail in the US is easier I would suppose than in Europe because the rates would all be different in each country (unless the EU has implemented a federal level postal system). And that may have been the problem. Also if there was a period of transition...

The problem is getting the magazines to a place where the distro can happen, cheaply and efficintly. The only solution I can think of is printing on that side of the atlantic somewhere. However anything you save will be spent on eploying someone to do it, renting an office somewhere etc.

So the only other solution is to print them here in the states, and then send them by international post to wherever. So the result is they will take forever to get there and some will get lost in shipment I suspect. So if you are recieving in Europe you would be about a month behind the subscribers in the US.

If the market could support the printing and distribution of said magazines from someplace in europe, I suppose it would work. But I am not sure that the printing/shipping cost in the US would be that much different than the Printing/Shipping cost in a european base.

From what I understand the problem with the european delivery and distribution is some sort of legal thing resulting from the increased power of the EU. Some law apparently makes it impossible, or more expensive to operate in europe and thus sinks the capability of distribution in europe. This is bad hear say, but it is apparently somthing like that.

A conundrum indeed. However I think a lot of the problems have been fixed, but the last great challenge is decent distro in Europe.

One thing that might help is not telling us when they shipped or what days to expect them...

Aaron.

 

[Piratecat]

Out of curiosity, how come this thread is here and not over at Paizo's boards? I suspect that would be a much more appropriate place for it.

 

[Keeper of Secrets]

For what its worth I have not had a single problem. I live in the US but nobody (until now) has ever said anything that I have heard.

 

[Firebird]

Canadian Woes

I have found that my Dragon magazines arrive roughly 3 weeks late month after month. While the customer service people at Paizo are friendly, they seem unable to rectify the delay. Several of my gaming freinds have reported similar delays in getting their magazines. Any other canucks experiencing the same?

 

[jaerdaph]

I do live in the United States and I am no longer a subscriber to DRAGON or DUNGEON, and now pick up individual issues from my FLGS on a case-by-case basis if I am interested in something I see inside or learn about here and it gets my interest.

While I was a subscriber, my issues arrived by mail "late", i.e. they were available on news stands for about three weeks before my subscriber copy came. Any other magazine I have ever subscribed to, and this includes DRAGON and DUNGEON when TSR and then WotC published them, always arrived in the mail BEFORE they arrived on the news stands. I found that annoying, but not the end of the world.

I had problems only twice with issues never arriving, and when I renewed a subscription, somehow the Paizo database overlapped my subscription, and I got two issues of a magazine one month (DRAGON, I believe), and the start of my new subscription was listed as the same month as the end of my previous subscription (a one month overlap). Being a 21st century kind of guy, I tried to resolve the problem online via the Paizo Web site and customer service email. I got absolutely nowhere. I called them on the phone and all my problems (replacement issues, subscription period readjustment) were handled promptly, professionally and efficiently. MORAL: You have to CALL Paizo, not email them.

Don't get me wrong. I think DRAGON and DUNGEON are in good hands at Paizo. The magazines are better than they've been in years. But I'm not as much into d20 fantasy/D&D anymore - I'm a d20 Modern player almost exclusively. When Polyhedron was dropped from DUNGEON, I decided to not renew my subscriptions but buy from the news stand on a case-by-case basis if I saw something I felt I could port/tweak/adapt for d20 Modern use.

That's my experience.

EDIT: That's my DATED experience, and a DATED moral. See Erik's note below this post about the customer service message board at Paizo's Web site, an option I didn't have at the time way back when I had problems (about a 15 months or so ago). Just more proof that Paizo IS listening to customer feedback and suggestions, and working to resolve any issues. Thanks, Erik!

 

[Erik Mona]

Folks,

If you're looking to mourn the hiatus of Undefeated and Amazing or to compare horror stories and the like, this is as good as any place to do it.

If you're looking for resolution of some delivery problem, however, your best bet is to post to the Customer Service message board at paizo.com.

Please keep in mind that our office was closed for two weeks over the holidays, after which our CS folks were faced with a fairly enormous backlog of messages and emails. They are working through the pile as quickly as possible.

It's my understanding that many of the delivery problems of the past year have been dealt with, although international subscriptions continue to be a challenge.

Dungeon and Dragon are in fine financial state. Our numbers show significant increases in profitability for both titles over the last fiscal year, and specific issues (Dragon 320, Dungeon 112, and now 118) performed spectacularly vs. the "average" issue, which is better than the "average" issue last year. Both magazines are on better editorial footing, in my opinion, than they've been on for years, and the staff is very excited about what lies ahead.

I don't plan to go anywhere for a long, long time, and I actually think the company as a whole will benefit with fewer irons in the fire.

Just thought you might be interested in the perspective of a guy on the front lines.

--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon

 

[amaterasu]

I would like to start with answer Piratecats rightful question first:
First: There is a thread at Paizo's message boards addressing the European delivery problems, that's true and I am involved in that to a significant extend and I agree that this would be the appropriate place to discuss Paizo problems. BUT, I have the experience that messageboards of companies which have problems (Paizo apparently does not belong to this group according to Erik Mona's statements), tend to shutdown unexpected. So I decided to move over the discussion to a more stable place, namely EN World.
Second: A single post of mine on EN World achieved what 6 emails to Paizo's service department, a lot of posts from European subscribers, several not answered phone calls and whatnot had not achieved: A reply from Erik Mona, demonstating that Paizo takes it seriously.
THird: With all the news I already summarized when I started this thread it seemed justified to worry about the Hundreds of Euros I paid for my three year subscription and to look for a way to rescue it. Given the extensive audience at EN world, the chances for finding someone with legal expertise who can help are much higher with a post here than a with a post at Paizos.
Forth: Paizo have a much bigger audience for their reply.

So, Piratecat, I hope you let this thread continue on EN World in the hope that it can bring more praise to Paizo than it harms the publisher.

Now to Erik Mona's reply, which is appreciated:
First: Most folks in Europe did not really expect a response during the xmas break (rmemeber, we are the ones with a lot more days off per year ;-)), but it just happens that they are also taking a break and consequently have time to write posts on messageboards. The problem is not the silence in the past two weeks. The problem is the silence in the weeks before the break. In some countries people even suspected theft of their magazines and involved postal service and the police. The postwoman who delivers to a friend of mine on Berlin was fired, because the internal revision concluded that only she could have steal the magazine. Just two cases I know personally of. The same problem occured in Italy (see Paolo Falcos posts in the European subscribtions: Update thread on Paizos site). And his statements are not exaggerated. I hope that give you, Erik, a better understanding of the scope of the problems; Paizo is directly responsible for kicking at least one woman out of her job. And now that she is found guilty with theft, she would have a big problem finding a new job. And please do not reply by saying that the people should have contacted Paizo before they involved the authorities and try to shift the guilt for all these problems again. Now from the European distributor to the subscribers. These folks trusted Paizo to deliver them what they have paid for.
Second: Why did Paizo stopped sending magazines directly from the states to bridge the problems with the European distributor, when subscribers report missing issues? To put it absolutely clear: Not delivering magazines in Europe (some people have not get a Dungeon since summer 2004!) is Paizos problem, so please stop bothering the subscribers with explaining Paizos problems and just solve them by sending out the magazines directly from the States. Yes, it costs you more, but this CANNOT be the problem of the European subscribers. We have paid Paizo for delivering the magazine to us, not a European distributor. Everybody accept to get the magazines 4 - 6 weeks later than the street date for the US. But it is not acceptable to see the magazines for sale in stores for more than 4 months without getting your copy in the mail.
Thrid: Erik, I do not agree with you that Paizos customer service board is the best place to look for a solution of the delivery problem. People started to post their missing issues to Vic's thread, started on December 14th, immediately. And no one has got a magazine so far. There were hints at a information page at the site of your European subscriber, but that's it. And please, I try to be fair regardless of the enormous frustration about not being able to use the xmas break to prepare the next months of my campaign, so please return me the favor and refrain from terming something horror stories, which only was able to develope because your service department did a very bad job. Thank you. But thinking about the fate of the Berlin post woman, you are maybe right using this term, albeit without knowing it.

To post a taking home message: Send all issues, which are missing according to the European subscription out today or tomorrow and they will arrive before next Tuesday, after which a group pf European subscribers will take the discussion first to Wizards and after that to Hasbro (See Vic's thread again); at the end it is theri licensed trademark. That would end this discussion the day the copies arrive. We are tired to get promises that things will improve; we would like to get the magazines. What do you think of it?

 

[TimSmith]

I am a UK subscriber and get my subscription to Dungeon through the place for games (which is the UK and, I believe, the European distributor). http://www.theplaceforgames.co.uk/

I have had no problems at all with them (apart from initial teething troubles when they took over from the previous UK distributors; and the fact that they are almost twice as expensive - but you can't have everything and quality is worth paying for, n'est ce pas?) My last received issue was 118. (The next is due soon, apparently).

There was a nightmare when the last distributors for the UK and Europe fell out with Hasbro and Paizo over who owed who what (this was when Paizo took over from Hasbro as the producers of the magazines- around issue 98 IIRC). EU data protection laws then prevented Hasbro passing on subscriber details to third parties (ie Paizo) so they could not rectify the problem directly. Also, I suspect that the (then) UK distributors were refusing to offer much co-operation of any sort until their financial demands had been met. They were telling me that they were owed money (of course I cannot verify this). Eventually I (and I thought everyone else in Europe) got paid a cheque refund for the unfulfilled part of their subscriptions direct from Hasbro and that was the end of the matter (apart from resubscribing with the new distributor if we wanted to do so.)

Paizo's boards seem to be down at the moment, so I can't see the threads you are referring to, but what exactly is the problem? Are you still waiting for satisfaction from the time Paizo took over, or are you newly subscribed but not getting your mags at all? If you are still waiting for mags from the swap over time, then you will probably wait for ever as the old distributor is out of the picture. If you are still waiting for the refund then that's appalling
If you are not getting new mags and you are subscibing through the place for games (who I believe even take subscriptions in Euros) then give them a call directly. I have always found them helpful and a guy called Gideon knows what he is doing.

Hope this helps a bit....

 

[Jason Horton]

I was happily subscribed to Dragon for many years under TSR and received my magazines without incident. They usually arrived a week or two before they appeared in the shops.

My problem was that after the last debacle where my magazines stopped appearing from Hasbro for no apparent reason and then 6 months later I got a check and an apology I elected not to subscribe or even to buy the magazines.

After a year or so I relented and actual started buying Dragon and the occassional Dungeon in the newsagent. This summer I decided to subscribe, after all the problems with Hasbro should have been sorted and even I can't hold a grudge forever.

After about 9 weeks I received an issue of Dragon (323 I think) and a couple of weeks later I received an issue of Dungeon. Great, I think. But NO!

These are the last issues I have received. Paizo have promised that the problems will be resolved in just another week or in a day or two for months now. Frankly, I'm fed up with it.

Paizo have problems with a European distributer. This is very sad and potentially costly for Paizo. I can understand that it could cause a delay of a few days or even a week in the issues being delivered and I can live with that.

What I cannot accept is that Paizo have a clear alternative to using a distributer (sending the magazines directly) that they are refusing to utilise. I appreciate that they will lose money if they do this but I don't really care. If Paizo were not confident that they could deliver of their promise of a subsrciption for the quoted price then they should not have sold me the subscription.

They did and now I want the magazines. I have been waiting for months for them so I think that the the least Paizo can do is stop making excused and deliver what I paid for.

To retain me as a customer they should also recompense me for the inconvenience that I have had to go through perhaps with a lifetime free subscription. ;-)