D&D General Combat as War vs. Sport and a Missing Third Mode

[Aldarc]

Pro Wrestling has a big emphasis on promotion, social interaction, and linking combats into a full story. Combat as Pro Wrestling would be the same.

Again, I feel as you may be hyper-fixating on the "pro wrestling" aspect a little too literally. Likewise, I think that most people can agree that "pro wrestling" is a much more narrow, restricted category of kind than war, sport, and theater. I can't help but assume, perhaps to my error, that you are a fan of pro wrestling who feels that pro wrestling should be entitled to its own category of "Combat as..." due to intricacies and nuances of pro wrestling that you feel are wholly special unto pro wrestling, which I don't particularly care getting into the weeds about. But again, I think that you are missing the forest for the trees here.

 

[zakael19]

Given that I'm running uh, a lot of Daggerheart right now, this is an interesting viewpoint to think through for me. I literally just shifted a Draw Steel! game over to DH because that level of high-prep, rules and time heavy combat-as-sport/game just wasn't doing it for me.

I'll contrast my experience between the two:

• In DS!, you need to figure out an objective for the encounter as it pertains to the story. Kinda same thing for DH, a conflict should be informed by the narrative and inform it as well. This right here is a huge shift from CoW I think?
• In DS! I know the math is very well crafted to give the exact challenge the building rules suggest. Basically, based on the party's resources (Victories / Recoveries) and how I build the encounter, I should largely have an idea of exactly how tough this is going to be.
• In DH, I want to throw together an encounter that is just the right mix for the moment. Do I want to show a deadly lieutenant standing in their way? I better make sure that I use a Solo or Leader + minions or else it'll feel anti climactic. Do I want to ambush two of the party in the midst of the night and provide far more story threat then mechanical? I can do that too, using GM Moves + fiction.
• DS! has a distinct "we roll initiative" whereas DH does not. This one is probably a pretty huge difference and why DH is so far into "combat as theater/narrative."

 

[Minigiant]

Again, I feel as you may be hyper-fixating on the "pro wrestling" aspect a little too literally. Likewise, I think that most people can agree that "pro wrestling" is a much more narrow, restricted category of kind than war, sport, and theater. I can't help but assume, perhaps to my error, that you are a fan of pro wrestling who feels that pro wrestling should be entitled to its own category of "Combat as..." due to intricacies and nuances of pro wrestling that you feel are wholly special unto pro wrestling, which I don't particularly care getting into the weeds about. But again, I think that you are missing the forest for the trees here.

Im talking

Theater in 1 Combat Encounter
Vs
Theater in the Mutliple Encounters, time between them, and the time before them.


Maybe im mistaken, but I thought you were describing CaT where the goal is to make every Combat Theatrical.

So a Turn 1 OHKO or a blatantly onesie Combat would not match Combat as Theater. Correct?

 

[Umbran]

So a Turn 1 OHKO or a blatantly onesie Combat would not match Combat as Theater. Correct?

It could be - if the fact that it was a OHKO was a dramatic turn of events.

For example, if there had been previously massive hype about how this was goig to be the "Fight of the Century!", and it turns out to be an instant knockout that makes the entire audience gasp, that's theatrical.

 

[Minigiant]

It could be - if the fact that it was a OHKO was a dramatic turn of events.

For example, if there had been previously massive hype about how this was goig to be the "Fight of the Century!", and it turns out to be an instant knockout that makes the entire audience gasp, that's theatrical.

That sounds more like pro wrestling or boxing than theater.

Thats my point.

Getting the bottom of the dungeon by the skin of your teeth then the lich teleports the party back to the entrance and raising all the minions feels different from the style of theater i think is being spoken about.

 

[Umbran]

That sounds more like pro wrestling or boxing than theater.

Pro-wrestling, meaning WWE, is theater. It is scripted theater depicting a violent combat sport. Those people are athletes, but they aren't engaged in an athletic competition. They are stuntperson-actors, performing on a stage, and we kindly suspend our disbelief for the show.

Real sports and real war can be dramatic, but that is result of the chips falling where they may, and is not by design.