Combat Expertise thingies.

[Joker]

Phew, I'm not alone in this.

I tried to run the CE and FD stacking idea by my group but they just laughed at me.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Also, a case can almost be made to keep CE and Fighting Defensively as separate and not combinable actions.

No, it can't

PHB p140:
Fighting Defensively as a Standard Action: You can choose to fight defensively when attacking. If you do so, you take a -4 penalty on all attacks in the round to gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC for the same round. This bonus stacks with the AC bonus granted by the Combat Expertise feat (p92).

It doesn't get a whole lot clearer than that

So, if a DM didn't allow both CE and Fighting Defensively to stack, the wording of the feat can support such a ruling.

The wording of the action, on the other hand, explicitly contradicts the ruling.

The 'Normal' clause of the feat just states the only option a character without the feat has to improve AC at the cost of attack bonus; the feat doesn't disallow a character with the feat to take advantage of that option as well, as the Fighting Defensively text clearly shows.

-Hyp.

 

[Storyteller01]

Okay, maybe I'm a bit nutty but I was under the impression that CE and FD didn't stack. From the SRD.

Prerequisite

Int 13.
Benefit

When you use the attack action or the full attack action in melee, you can take a penalty of as much as -5 on your attack roll and add the same number (+5 or less) as a dodge bonus to your Armor Class. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The changes to attack rolls and Armor Class last until your next action.
Normal

A character without the Combat Expertise feat can fight defensively while using the attack or full attack action to take a -4 penalty on attack rolls and gain a +2 dodge bonus to Armor Class.


Emphasis mine
Doesn't this seem to imply that both options do not get used together?


EDIT: Sorry jhulae, didn't see your post. The intent seems pretty clear though; if you don't have CE, use X rule. If you do, use the benefit listed above (which doesn't say that the two sets stack).

But that goes to semantics, and I've had enough of that alreayd .

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Except that you're still wrong, Storyteller.

 

[schnivelbiv]

crunch crunch crunch

CE and FD do indeed stack as stated right under FD. Also as a side note, I am playing a devoted defender with CE, a tower shield, and a braod bladed short sword. Mix in FD and the AC goes through the roof. Speaking from experience, the ability to stand in front of a big badie that has "only" +20 to hit when you have a 40 AC is great! Sure you take -10 to hit and only do a 1d6+perks for damage, but when someone needs to stand toe to toe with dragon or a huge elemental, there is no one better.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Okay, maybe I'm a bit nutty but I was under the impression that CE and FD didn't stack.

So the fact that Fighting Defensively states "It stacks with Combat Expertise!" doesn't sway your opinion at all?

(Note - this is in the PHB. You won't find the line in the SRD.)

-Hyp.

 

[Storyteller01]

So the fact that Fighting Defensively states "It stacks with Combat Expertise!" doesn't sway your opinion at all?

(Note - this is in the PHB. You won't find the line in the SRD.)

-Hyp.

Must be in the 3.5 PHB.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Must be in the 3.5 PHB.

3.0 PHB, as well.

 

[Jhulae]

Just so it's clear, I have no problem with them stacking. I feel that if somebody spent a feat, they *should* get more of an advantage than someone who didn't.

It's interesting, though, that the statement about them stacking is not it the SRD, though. So, if you have someone arguing from the SRD, they can come up with a different conclusion than someone reading from the book.

However, again, I have no problem with them stacking.

 

[Hypersmurf]

It's interesting, though, that the statement about them stacking is not it the SRD, though. So, if you have someone arguing from the SRD, they can come up with a different conclusion than someone reading from the book.

Yup. It just happens that their conclusion is wrong

The rules of D&D are found in the PHB, MM, and DMG; the SRD doesn't actually contain the rules of D&D as such

-Hyp.