Come again - you can't shoot bows in melee while in melee?

[Nyaricus]

My new Dark*Sun DM has a strange ruling which I believe is a hold-over from a 2nd edition houserule, but he is sure is in the 3.5 PHB. Here's what he says:

"If you have a bow, and are shooting into melee whilst in melee, you cannot use it and must drop your bow and pull out a melee weapon; if you do shoot it while in melee you take a -35 penalty to do so. His reasoning is that whoever you are shooting at will have dodged you by the time you have shot him, and also there will not be enough momentum behind your shot to do any damage to him. Also, if you do decide to shoot into melee whilst in melee, they get an AoO against you, since you do not threaten."

I called BS on him. I don't think I've ever come across such a statement in any rulebook, and he said "okay, go onto EN World and ask them - they'll tell you the same thing I just said."

I am frankly still spinning from that ruling. I'm not even playing anyone who specializes in bows, but it's something which screams "HUH?" which I need to clarify.

So, in turn I ask ye ENnies: what are the penalties to shoot in melee whilst in melee, if any? Hyp, I'd love for your knowledge of the game right now, please

 

[Sithobi1]

Well, you take a -4 penalty for shooting into melee and provoke an AoO...but -35? And...not enough force? The maximum force would be right when the arrow is released...

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

That's pretty far out, there.

EDIT: I predict a lot of 5' steps in any bow-users' futures - which is pretty much what happens, anyway.

 

[Matafuego]

The AoO is right, and the penalty is -4, plus anyone can try to sunder your bow and leave you weaponless...
But -35???????
Not enough momentum??
I've been reading that word a lot lately...

 

[3d6]

That's a really bizzare ruling. Not enough momentum? Does that mean he is claming the arrow gains speed in midair?

 

[ElectricDragon]

You might possibly have a total -8 penalty (shooting into melee, and soft cover) and provoke an attack of opportunity (which can be used for sunder since you do not threaten and thus get no return AoO); but -35 is waaay out there. I would like to see the breakdown on that penalty.

Let's see, add non-proficiency for another -4, and off-sized for another -4, and entangled gets you -2, and dazzled gets -1, and shaken or frightened another -2, and sickened gets -2 for a grand total of -23. That would be a very bad day for any character; but -35? -12 for calling BS, I guess (of course that is because the penalty was readied for your BS call and thus happened first).

Ciao
Dave

 

[Hypersmurf]

You might possibly have a total -8 penalty (shooting into melee, and soft cover) and provoke an attack of opportunity (which can be used for sunder since you do not threaten and thus get no return AoO); but -35 is waaay out there. I would like to see the breakdown on that penalty.

You're unlikely to have soft cover if you're in melee... and I'd disagree that the AoO can be a Sunder (the Sunder action lacks footnote 7 on the Table of Action Types).

Other than that, I agree with what everyone else has said: -4 penalty for shooting a target engaged in melee (avoided with Precise Shot), and provoke an AoO.

d20 Modern has an additional -4 penalty for using a longarm (rifle, shotgun, etc) against an adjacent opponent, and I could see a DM importing this as a house rule for all D&D projectile weapons, but it's not a general D&D rule.

-Hyp.

 

[Thanee]

I don't think it's either bizarre nor far out there. It's certainly not what the D&D rules say, but I would also consider it rather difficult to shoot a bow, while in melee with the target.

I wouldn't mind, if they said, it was simply impossible, because, realistically, it pretty much is.

Of course, the 5-ft. step kinda negates this issue, anyways, and unless that is taken care of as well, which might in turn rise other issues, then any such ruling is rather pointless to begin with.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Joker]

No, I'm afraid I'm gonna have to disagree with everyone here. You're DM is mostly right. The ruling however is limited to the Dark Sun campaign setting, however. Since most creatures either have active or passive psychic powers, a buffer of sorts is created when they enter in close proximity of each other. In this case, when they enter melee combat. This Buffering Supernatural Shield causes all ranged attacks, including spit, to slow to a crawl until it has exited the BS Shield which covers your entire threatened area. It is noted that attacks affected are only done so by the Shield you and the creatures you threaten have created.

IIRC it's under the section "Ten fast ways to get kicked out of my own game."

 

[irdeggman]

d20 Modern has an additional -4 penalty for using a longarm (rifle, shotgun, etc) against an adjacent opponent, and I could see a DM importing this as a house rule for all D&D projectile weapons, but it's not a general D&D rule.

-Hyp.

In d20 Modern you also threaten with a longarm (or pistol) since both can be used as melee weapons (but you have to use the melee damage and not the ranged damage).

And bows only get a single shot per round with no feats that allow that RoF to be increased. {My logic on this one is that the game revolves around guns and pretty much no matter how skilled you are with a bow non-single shot guns fire quicker.}

IMO this is really one of those places where the two systems differe on fundamental such that they shouldn't be "combined".