Comeliness and Charisma

[iblis]

A good idea

Personally, I like having the Appearance / Attractiveness / Looks / Comeliness / whatever stat there, regardless of the system.

Most definitions of charisma I have come across do not include in them references to attractiveness or anything very close to it.

And after all, if you're going to put decimal figures on other abstracts, such as Intelligence and Wisdom and Charisma (particularly the last), then why not on physical beauty?

Thirdly, take a look at the many charismatic people out there, as well as charismatic leaders and figures from history, many of whom may not be / have been 'babes', but wow they can / could certainly sway an audience and/or persuade one and/or appeal to people's better or worse natures with frightening efficacy.

Oh, and then take a good look at some of the ah, 'stars' and the like who have about as much c(C)harisma as a rotting walrus, yet look a million dollars...literally too.

And for the last two points, no : Having 9-12 Charisma just doesn't cut it for the purposes of illustrating low attractiveness and high charisma, nor high attractiveness and low charisma. Some beings have / had / will have (for example) 16-18 Charisma and 3-5 Appearance, or 3-5 Charisma and 16-18 Appearance. It doesn't take much looking to find them.

Anyway, that's why I like having that stat around. And if someone can't find enough uses for it, then I guess there's a possibility the campaign may be kinda PG-M rated (because after all, in this culture, violence is more 'acceptable' than say...sex) ... Not that that's necessarily a problem, but if a DM / GM / Storyteller / whatever wants to include any of the interactions in life that are remotely affected by personal appearance, then having the proper roleplaying mechanics available for use helps a lot.

As an afterthought, Appearance is likely to set off initial reactions, but Charisma will prove the 'stayer', a lot of the time.

 

[eris404]

ALLURE [General]
You are of striking physical beauty, and can use that beauty to your advantage.
Prerequisites: Charisma 13+
Benefit: When dealing with a person or persons of similar race and opposite gender, you gain a +2 bonus to all Charisma-based skill and ability checks except for Intimidate checks. "Similar race" generally means same type and subtype, though at the DM's option, certain subtypes (elves and humans, for instance) may qualify.

I like this. Consider it stolen.

I get the best ideas from this site.

 

[maddman75]

Agree with the feat idea. This is how Unisystem handles it. Most characters are of average attractiveness. You can pay points for the Attractiveness quality if such is important to you, or get points from the Unattractiveness drawback. As d20 really doesn't have an analogy to drawbacks, the feat is the closest translation.

 

[Psion]

Agree with the feat idea. This is how Unisystem handles it.

That's how spycraft handles it too. But I think it's more appropraite there than in D&D, for example.

 

[diaglo]

unless you are willing to tread down the path of what physical beauty means in the way of your campaign... it is not a necessity.

KISS (keep it simple stupid)

 

[Kax Tuglebend]

Does anyone remember the 2E Player's Option Stats...where you could split up your ability score. I don't exactly remember how that worked...can someone refresh my memory?

drat.. i was all set to be informative.. when i realised i couldnt remember any of the pairs of sub-attributes

each attribute had its associated bonuses split between 2 sub-attributes, you would double the attribute and then divide it between the two sub-attributes, with the limit of not being able to have a difference of more than 4 points.

eg: you are making a character who is supposed to be an Archer, you roll a 12 for DEX, so you assign 14 to 'Manual Dexterity' which would affect your missile attacks, and a 10 to 'Agility' which would affect Initiative and AC, of course, this being 2E neither rating would have any effect..

as for the ALLURE feat.. i think i'll give that a try myself

now i just have to go and try to get the vision of Anna Kournikova and the tentacles out of my mind..

 

[Thanee]

If charisma is comeliness, per the MM, my avatar is frickin' Anna Kournikova.

Heh.

Really, I think d20 is remiss to exclude this oft-needed and important attribute. But it's hard to do right.

The point is, that a high Cha can mean you are beautiful, but it does not have to, Charisma includes a lot of things, much like all the other attributes. With a moderate Cha you can still be beautiful, but lacking in other areas, Cha covers. With a low Cha, you'll probably be lacking in good looks, but you might at least have an average appearance. Or you could be outright ugly. It's just too abstract to derive single sub-attributes easily. Only the whole picture must be right in the end.

Just to give another example, because this stuff is certainly not unique to Charisma, even though it's the only attribute, which gets considered to be split in two.

A dwarven master locksmith would certainly have a very high manual dexterity, while naturally - being a dwarf - lacking general body agility. Still, when assigning him a high Dex you automatically increase his chance at dodging attacks, balancing, riding, tumbling, even tho it has no connection with what he does or is good at.

Bye
Thanee

 

[StAlda]

Integrated

I integrated comeliness into my game rules as well as Perception (I don't like all the clerics of the world having god-like senses).

Here is the basics of what I've done/added

PER 0 means that the character is completely cut off from the outside world, in a seizure like state, helpless.
COM 0 means that the character is withdrawn into a catatonic, coma like stupor, helpless.

PERCEPTION (PER)
Perception measures the characters ability to receive stimulus and be in tune with and aware of one’s surroundings. If you want your character to have acute senses, put a high score in Perception. Every creature has a Perception score.
You apply your character’s Perception modifier to:
• Forgery, Listen, Read Lips, Spot, Track. These are the skills that have Perception as their key ability.
• Checks that represent attempts to perceive.

COMELINESS (COM)
Comeliness measures a character’s physical appearance. Any creature that is perceivable by others in any fashion has at least 1 point of Comeliness. Comeliness can vary greatly based on who's viewing the character, its current situation, and its environment. Anything with no Comeliness score has no perceivable existence. Every creature has a Comeliness score.
You apply your character’s Comeliness modifier to:
• Disguise, Gather Information, Intimidate. These are the skills that have Comeliness as their key ability.
• Checks that represent first impressions.


Obviously, I made Track a Skill not a feat, and I broke-out Read Lips into its own skill.

I also broke the five senses into Perception skills, but that is a whole other topic (Pseudo-Skills).

 

[dnddreamer70]

Nobody has mentioned it yet...but I have to.

I like the Appearance stat instead of Comeliness in the Book of Erotic Fantasy. And all the cool things that go with the Appearance stat (i.e. Feats, skills, spell-casting, etc...). Comeliness was basically useless...but if you use the material in the BoEF then you can at least have a stat that somes how attractive you are and also as some sort of game play with it.

 

[Roman]

Dogs tend to respond to firm calm 'assertive' voices showing that interSpecies interactions are affected by Charisma

Yes, yes, and monkeys, squirrels and birds all are attracted by shiny things just like people - that does not prove that beauty is universal accross the boundaries of species. Dogs have been domesticated and have evolved to respond to human social cues - their very survival depended on this. Try to see whether crocodiles respond to firm calm 'assertive' voices...

furthermore the skills of empathising with others (Bluff, Diplomacy et al) are universal - the difference is the form not the ability.

Diplomacy, for example, affects negotiation and persuasion. Since humans are the only species intelligent enough that we know of to engage in true negotiation, it is a bit presumptuous to say that an alien mindset would find the same things/style persuasive and have same norms for negotiation - I highly doubt it.

Taking ranks in the skill allows a character to get the right form that wont insult anyone

But an 'alien' (as in non-human) mindset might find completely different things insulting!

Anyway I think your premise is wrong and comliness unnecessary

The game has existed without comeliness/appearance, so of course it is unnecessary in that sense, however, I do think that it would be reasonable. In fact, I would like to see many other new stats too, since some of the current amalgamations eminently do not make sense. Comeliness/Appearance (comeliness appears to be the more traditional name, but I actually prefer the word appearance) is just one I picked to talk about, because of the problem of it not being universal - hence my pointing out that this is not so much of an obstacle considering the fact that charisma is not universal either.