D&D (2024) Command is the Perfect Encapsulation of Everything I Don't Like About 5.5e

[TiQuinn]

There's definitely some of that out there, but I'm with you in the sense that what's good for the PCs is good for the NPCs.

For me, it’s understandable when the speed of turns is too slow. Losing a turn means you don’t get another turn for quite awhile, but I think the goal in that case is speed up the game by reducing the number of dials to fiddle with, or in other words, a less tactical game. But that’s just my two cents.

 

[el-remmen]

For all the people that follow the so called "rule of cool" for what PCs can command an NPC to do, do the NPCs have the same option? If you can ask a monster to "jump" meaning they jump off a cliff, can an NPC caster do the same to a PC?

Because I've long had the policy that whatever the PCs do, so can their enemies. That's one of the reasons I prefer a more limited list, having been on the receiving end of what I felt was pure abuse of a first level spell.

Yes.

 

[Oofta]

While I don’t agree with the “jump off a cliff” example being a valid use of command, in general, yes, what’s good for the PCs is good for the NPCs.

I think a much more powerful example of this is Hold Person. I’ve heard of players using it but then hating when it’s used against them.

Jump was an actual example from earlier in the thread. But there are others like "swim" causing someone to jump into nearby water or "breath" while in a toxic gas cloud.

 

[TiQuinn]

Jump was an actual example from earlier in the thread. But there are others like "swim" causing someone to jump into nearby water or "breath" while in a toxic gas cloud.

I don’t agree with any of those. If the target knows it’s harmful, they don’t do it. Now, if they don’t know that what they’ll do is harmful, i.e. approach will cause them to walk into a trap they’re unaware of, that’s valid (but a lot more situational).

Edit: I should state that’s based on current 5e rules. 2nd edition Command was more powerful and those were possibilities though I still think “Jump” versus “Jump off a cliff” is too far of a stretch.

 

[Minigiant]

This is why I would love if D&D would put in the Dungeon Masters guide, It's basis assumptions on magic and magic spells. Which affects are available at which levels of spells.

For example:

You can't mind control a single creature type with a spell of 4th level or lower unless it is a type of lower mental faculty like a beast or plant.

You cannot mentally force creature to do something dangerous with a spell of 3rd or lower until you are invoking fear, anger, pain, hunger, or some other base emotion.

 

[Oofta]

I don’t agree with any of those. If the target knows it’s harmful, they don’t do it. Now, if they don’t know that what they’ll do is harmful, i.e. approach will cause them to walk into a trap they’re unaware of, that’s valid (but a lot more situational).

Edit: I should state that’s based on current 5e rules. 2nd edition Command was more powerful and those were possibilities though I still think “Jump” versus “Jump off a cliff” is too far of a stretch.

I wouldn't allow them either, they were given as examples of fun commands given.

It all comes down to preference of course, it's just part of why I prefer a more limited list. If it's open and as powerful as some people advocate, it wouldn't be fun if the same logic is used on the players. Even with a handful of command words (especially with no requirement for target understanding) command can be a decent spell.s

 

[TiQuinn]

I wouldn't allow them either, they were given as examples of fun commands given.

It all comes down to preference of course, it's just part of why I prefer a more limited list. If it's open and as powerful as some people advocate, it wouldn't be fun if the same logic is used on the players. Even with a handful of command words (especially with no requirement for target understanding) command can be a decent spell.s

At the end of the day, regardless of what the spell says, I’m allowing non listed commands rather than constraining it. That’s a net benefit for the players. If I have an NPC spell caster, there’s usually other spells that I’m using first anyways.

 

[el-remmen]

“Jump” versus “Jump off a cliff” is too far of a stretch.

I totally agree. “Jump off a cliff” is not a single word verb. But if they jump in place on dangerous terrain there might be a chance doing so might make them fall off that cliff anyway. But that’s just how I run it.

Recently, a PC in one of my games was near a cliff edge shooting arrows from behind a rock. An enemy decided they wanted that cover and pushed him out from behind it toward the cliff edge. Since the amount pushed was beyond the lip of the cliff, I ruled the PC could use a reaction to try to grab the edge before falling. However that meant he had to drop his bow and I gave it a 50/50 chance that it falls off the cliff even if he didn’t. (I also gave him the option of trying it grab hold with only one hand but rolling the check at disadvantage). Anyway, he dropped the bow and it fell 70 feet into tall snowdrifts.

 

[Divine2021]

Ah yes, the "fan" who would rather see their fandom dead than be something they don't like.

I've seen a lot of chatter today about how The Acolyte isn't getting a second season, and people are treating it like a victory. Yay, less Star Wars. Make it lose money! If we keep trying to kill it, then they will obviously bow to the fan demands rather than write it off and just sell nostalgic t-shirts and mugs to wistful fans on their 9000th viewing of The Empire Strikes Back...

But I'm sure you have already decided to go with what Paizo or Kobold or whatever indie dev you like is and none of this will matter. D&D's death will only make the market shift to them and a golden age will flourish. There is no chance that The RPG market with contract back to niche status and games will be harder to find. Just as long as greedy Hasbro is punished for the Cardinal Sin of not making a game you like.

lol chill dude, I’m not killing the “fandom” by refusing to bow down and lick Hasbro’s boot. As a consumer, I’m choosing to spend my money elsewhere and I’m encouraging others to do likewise.

 

[KYRON45]

lol chill dude, I’m not killing the “fandom” by refusing to bow down and lick Hasbro’s boot. As a consumer, I’m choosing to spend my money elsewhere and I’m encouraging others to do likewise.

When did Hasbro ask anyone to lick their boots?
Is there some new "debacle, travesty, disaster, tomfoolery" that I am unaware of?