D&D 5E Command spell as reaction

[Dausuul]

Coming out of hiding is a result of attacking, not a separate action. The reaction happens after the trigger except in a few specific cases. So, the rogue attacks; as a result, the rogue decloaks; finally, the paladin casts. The attack has to happen before anything else.

And if the rogue hits, it could indeed disrupt the paladin's concentration.

Finally, command takes effect on the target's next turn. So, if the spell does go through, it still won't have any effect at all this turn. All the paladin has accomplished by readying is giving the rogue a chance to plan for the impending Approach effect.

Readying command is just generally a bad play.

(I assume the rogue is using a ranged weapon.)

 

[SkidAce]

If the rogue comes around the corner and heads 30 feet down an open hallway towards the paladin, then (barring exceptions) the paladin sees him, and could cast his reactionary "Command".

 

[Maxperson]

If you go this way, you create additional complications, though. Like what if the creature has already used its movement before being hit by the spell. Does the spell have no effect then? It has a duration listed as "1 Round", so the spell should effectively last 6 seconds, enough to move a full round worth of movement.

It's not really much of a complication, though. The spell already builds into the approach command the possibility that the target might not reach you before the spell wears off. While the duration is one round, the spell explicitly only affect the creature on its next turn, so if you are using it as a reaction, the current turn becomes "the next turn."

Sure, you run the risk with the approach command that some of the creatures movement will be used up before you get off your command, but you always have the option to use a different command than approach, or choose to use the approach command anyway and see how far the creature moves. That small risk is offset by the ability to use your reaction to stop a creature under circumstances that you are choosing, rather than just using the spell on your turn, AND you are able to target creatures that you may not have been able to target on your turn, like one that is hidden.

There are pros and cons to each choice, and I think that the potential limitation on flee and approach commands is a slight con. Others may disagree and rule differently. This is just the way I will rule in my game.

 

[Li Shenron]

Let's say a paladin fights a rogue. The rogue keeps hiding.
The paladin uses the ready action and defines "When the rogue comes out of hiding to attack, I cast Command "Approach" on it."
The rogue fails the wisdom saving throw.

Questions:
1. Is the attack of the rogue still executed?
2. Can the attack of the rogue hit the paladin and break concentration before the reaction is triggered?
3. Does the rogue carry out the "Approach" command immediately or on his next turn? What if the rogue already used all its movement before attacking?

I think that if the Rogue had successfully hidden, the problem for the Paladin is that he won't know the location of the Rogue until after the attack was done (either hit or miss), because that's when the Rogue reveals her location.

OTOH if the Rogue was merely behind some cover but technically not hidden, the Paladin should be able to cast the spell before the attack (note: I wouldn't punish the player for imperfect wording of the Ready action... considering how unforgiving the rules for Readying a spell are, I'd actually want to help the player as much as I can, so I'd assume that the wording corresponds to the Paladin casting the spell as soon as possible e.g. "as soon as I see the Rogue again" or something like that).

Indeed the specific Command spell's "on its next turn" wording itself makes everything more difficult. If you go by the RAW, it sounds like it is basically useless to cast Command as a reaction. At the same time, the Command spell explicitly includes a Halt option. You could go by the RAW and say that the Rogue is affected now by the spell (in the general sense) but can finish her turn, and will have instead to skip her next turn. In this case, her attack can certainly break concentration.

Or you could allow Halt to work immediately, but in this case I think it's more fair that it basically forcefully ends the Rogue's current turn but it won't affect her next turn (essentially a ruling that considers the rest of the current turn as "next turn"). I don't see any problem allowing this.

I don't think it's necessarily a good idea to ask here what is the RAI of Command, because IMHO the RAI of Ready is just that basically Ready doesn't work with spells. In fact, I would have preferred that the game simply said "you can't Ready a spell, period". Instead they went for this utterly useless route of specifying that you can but it practically never works, and even went as far as adding this extra bit of narrative about "holding the spell's energy"; just say that you can't Ready a spell and there is no "holding the spell's energy" at all, which in fact doesn't appear anywhere else in the game.

 

[Horwath]

How would I rule:

If rogue is hiding, I guess he will roll stealth to get advantage on attack.

So;

If palading wins perception, spells goes off and rogue aproaches paladin right away using ALL movement that means "double" Dash if needed.

If paladin fails perception, attack goes off, then reaction(no need for concentration as spell is casted after paladin gets hit), then rogue comes to paladin with movement and Dash "bonus" action.

 

[Hussar]

How would I rule:

If rogue is hiding, I guess he will roll stealth to get advantage on attack.

So;

If palading wins perception, spells goes off and rogue aproaches paladin right away using ALL movement that means "double" Dash if needed.

If paladin fails perception, attack goes off, then reaction(no need for concentration as spell is casted after paladin gets hit), then rogue comes to paladin with movement and Dash "bonus" action.

That's not how readying a spell works. You have to cast the spell on your turn and then you "hold" it, as per a concentration spell, until the trigger goes off and the spell takes effect.

 

[Rya.Reisender]

C. The rogue becomes visible before he can attack. That would be the typical case if the rogue is stepping out from behind cover to attack. In that case the spell would be cast before the attack.

I don't think that can be the case, unless the rogue really approaches the enemy rather than attacking it. Because even if there is a clear line of sight, the Rogue is still hidden until his attack connects or misses.

Finally, command takes effect on the target's next turn. So, if the spell does go through, it still won't have any effect at all this turn. All the paladin has accomplished by readying is giving the rogue a chance to plan for the impending Approach effect.

Readying command is just generally a bad play.

Why? If you fight a rogue that keeps hiding, your only way to be able to fight him effectively is readying actions.

 

[Maxperson]

That's not how readying a spell works. You have to cast the spell on your turn and then you "hold" it, as per a concentration spell, until the trigger goes off and the spell takes effect.

He's using it exactly right if the readied action is, "I cast command when I see the rogue." He's just adding in the perception vs. stealth to notice the rogue hiding, which is how hiding and perception work. If he notices the rogue hiding, the rogue will be unable to get the attack from hiding check and will be seen first. If he doesn't notice the rogue, then the rogue attacks before being seen. All you've just done is quote the rule exactly as he is using it.

 

[Maxperson]

I don't think that can be the case, unless the rogue really approaches the enemy rather than attacking it. Because even if there is a clear line of sight, the Rogue is still hidden until his attack connects or misses.

Unless you like a more realistic game. A rogue popping out from hiding is going to be visible before he can swing a weapon. He's not invisible......unless of course he is.

Why? If you fight a rogue that keeps hiding, your only way to be able to fight him effectively is readying actions.

Or you can just walk around the pile of boxes or whatever that the rogue is hiding behind. It's not like you don't get to see him duck behind the object(s) he is hiding behind. As soon as you walk behind where the rogue is hiding, he's visible and he can't hide from you any longer.

 

[jaelis]

I don't think that can be the case, unless the rogue really approaches the enemy rather than attacking it. Because even if there is a clear line of sight, the Rogue is still hidden until his attack connects or misses.

The rules are not perfectly clear on this, so I guess you can expect to see different DMs ruling differently.