Comments and questions on 3.5 from a Newbie

[Edena_of_Neith]

How hard is a Difficulty Check (DC) roll?
Seriously.
Because in the skills everything relies on a DC roll, and I see it in other aspects of the game as well.
But DC numbers don't mean anything to me, if I can't relate them to specifically difficult things, or a specific level of difficulty.

I will give my preliminary estimate (my best guess) of the DC difficulties. Would you, then, give me feedback on that? And would you give your own estimates of what the numbers mean?

(Everything given below assumes you've never tried it before, except DC 0 and 1)

DC 0: Automatic (breathing when you can breathe normally)
DC 1: Very easy (walking when you are a healthy adult in an easy situation)
DC 2: Moderately easy (jogging at a slow pace on a smooth sidewalk when you are an athlete)
DC 3: Some effort required (walking through shallow to moderate snow with boots on)
DC 4: Slightly difficult (running at full speed down a sidewalk, walking through an overgrown meadow, sawing light wood with a hand saw, trying to stay awake for 24 hours)
DC 5: Moderately difficult (climbing a dry tree in good weather, when the tree has plenty of branches and you're in good shape, sawing hardwood with a hand saw)
DC 6: Difficult (trying to climb a wet tree with many branches when you're in good shape, attempting to rollerblade or rollerskate, attempting the moderate slope of a ski run, trying to stay awake for 48 hours)
DC 7: More difficult (trying to play a violin passably, trying to climb a ladder covered in ice from an icestorm, trying ice skating, trying to ski down a moderately advanced slope, trying to climb a tree with few branches, trying to saw through a thick tree with a hand saw)
DC 8: Very difficult. (trying to play a flute passably, trying to stay awake for 72 hours, trying to use a skill saw and a hammer and nails to make fine furniture, trying to wallpaper a room properly)
DC 10: So difficult it is probably impossible to do this without training. Or, extremely hazardous, such as climbing a tree trunk without hardly any branches, swimming in deep and fast flowing (warm) water, skiing on advanced slopes, attempting iceskating figures or maneuvers, attempting ballet movements, maintaining fast dancing. Or mentally challenging, figuring out calculus equations, working out physics, or solving complicated chemistry.
DC 13: Playing a violin, flute, or piano well enough to please a non-demanding audience. Mastering the less difficult maneuvers of ballet or ice skating. Skiing as an expert. Being an somewhat competent mathematician, physicist, or mechanic. Making it to internship as a doctor.
DC 16: Playing a violin, flute, or piano well enough to please a typical, musical audience. Mastering the moderately difficult maneuvers of ballet or ice skating. Becoming a competent ski instructor. Being a fully competent mathematician, physicist, mechanic, archetect, or a somewhat competent engineer. Making it through internship in a good hospital.
DC 20: Being a concert violinist, flautist, pianist, or a great ballet dancer of ice skater. Being an olympic skier. Being a brilliant mathematician, physicist, mechanic, or archetect. Being a very fine engineer. Being a truly competent specialist doctor.
DC 23: Being the best or nearly the best violinist or singer in the world. Being a champion olympic athlete. Being one of the best of the best as a doctor. Being a prodigy in one subject, having understanding and insight completely beyond the scope of practically anyone else.
DC 25: The theoretical limits of human achievement, such as Newton's invention of calculus and physics, or Conan surviving the Wheel of Pain for 15 years.
DC 30: This level of ability represents superhuman capacity, such as shown by many heroes and villains in stories and films.
DC 35: This level of ability represents very great superhuman capacity, which when shown in films and books is obviously of magical origin (since it so transcends reality it is not believable in any other way.)
DC 40: ?

I request feedback, as much as you care to give, on this one. I need to know what the numbers mean, badly.

Yours Sincerely
Edena_of_Neith

 

[kenobi65]

How hard is a Difficulty Check (DC) roll?

There's a chart, either in the Skills chapter of the PHB, or somewhere in the DMG, that shows "how difficult is difficult."

It essentially duplicates the chart you've proposed, but within the context of D&D characters and specific skills (i.e., a high-level rogue being able to hear a mouse...)

Edit: a truncated version of this list is in the SRD chapter on Skills:

Very easy (0) Notice something large in plain sight (Spot)
Easy (5) Climb a knotted rope (Climb)
Average (10) Hear an approaching guard (Listen)
Tough (15) Rig a wagon wheel to fall off (Disable Device)
Challenging (20) Swim in stormy water (Swim)
Formidable (25) Open an average lock (Open Lock)
Heroic (30) Leap across a 30-foot chasm (Jump)
Nearly impossible (40) Track a squad of orcs across hard ground after 24 hours of rainfall (Survival)

And, what you'll see is that DCs are *not* as hard as you think they are. If you have a PC who's specifically focused on a particular skill (i.e., maximum ranks, good ability score, Skill Focus, other feats, equipment bonuses, synergy bonuses from other skills), it's really not very difficult to get a skill modifier of +20 or higher at the mid-levels (a 10th level PC or so).

Diplomacy, in particular, is a skill that it's very easy to completely tweak out. Let's take a 10th level half-elf, with Diplomacy as a class skill.
- 13 ranks
- Assume an 18 Charisma, so +4 ability score bonus
- +2 racial bonus
- +2 bonus from 5 ranks in Bluff
- +2 bonus from 5 ranks in Knowledge (nobility / royalty)
- +2 bonus from 5 ranks in Sense Motive (these last 3 are unnamed bonuses, so they stack)
- +3 bonus from Skill Focus (Diplomacy) feat
- +2 bonus from Negotiator feat
- +3 circumstance bonus from Circlet of Persuasion

There's a +33 bonus right there, and I didn't even try very hard. At that point, DC34 is automatic, and DC40 can be made 70% of the time.

Keep in mind that, even with 0 ranks and a +0 ability score modifier, you can make a DC10 skill check 55% of the time (and 100% of the time if you can Take 10).

 

[Aaron L]

Actuallt, its something like

DC 1 auto success, no effort required

DC 5 really easy

DC 10 Requires effort, 50% chance of doing it with no training, but simple with sufficient training

DC 15 Getting hard, you better have some training and natural skill if you want to do this right

DC 20 Hard. requires skill and luck to reliable accomplish

DC 25 real hard

DC 30+ real real hard, etc

But consider that a 1st level commoner can achieve a +9 on his main skill check with ease. So that makes a DC 10 an auto success for him. A 10th level commoner (yes, they are out there, the wise old men of the village) will have a +19 in his main skill (13 ranks, +3 from ability bonus, +3 from skill focus) so you can gauge things that way. A 15th level adventurer can have a +23 in a class skill tied to a class important ability easily.

DCs are all listed under the skills. In the DMG somewhere there is a chart with relative universal DC examples, I think.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

How hard is a Difficulty Check (DC) roll?
Seriously.
Because in the skills everything relies on a DC roll, and I see it in other aspects of the game as well.
But DC numbers don't mean anything to me, if I can't relate them to specifically difficult things, or a specific level of difficulty.

I will give my preliminary estimate (my best guess) of the DC difficulties. Would you, then, give me feedback on that? And would you give your own estimates of what the numbers mean?

(Everything given below assumes you've never tried it before, except DC 0 and 1)

DC 0: Automatic (breathing when you can breathe normally)
DC 1: Very easy (walking when you are a healthy adult in an easy situation)
DC 2: Moderately easy (jogging at a slow pace on a smooth sidewalk when you are an athlete)
DC 3: Some effort required (walking through shallow to moderate snow with boots on)
DC 4: Slightly difficult (running at full speed down a sidewalk, walking through an overgrown meadow, sawing light wood with a hand saw, trying to stay awake for 24 hours)

These aren't skill checks. Except maybe sawing the wood.

Note that you make a check like so: d20 + skill modifier, against the DC. The average roll of a DC is 10. I think maybe you need to boost the DCs of all these checks by 10. But what do I know?

DC 5: Moderately difficult (climbing a dry tree in good weather, when the tree has plenty of branches and you're in good shape, sawing hardwood with a hand saw)

The DC for climbing a tree is listed in the Climb description. I think the DC is 10, which is considered "easy".

DC 6: Difficult (trying to climb a wet tree with many branches when you're in good shape, attempting to rollerblade or rollerskate, attempting the moderate slope of a ski run, trying to stay awake for 48 hours)

Back to climbing the tree... usually you add a -2 penalty to the skill check (or boost the DC by 2) when there's a negative condition.

DC 7: More difficult (trying to play a violin passably, trying to climb a ladder covered in ice from an icestorm, trying ice skating, trying to ski down a moderately advanced slope, trying to climb a tree with few branches, trying to saw through a thick tree with a hand saw)
DC 8: Very difficult. (trying to play a flute passably, trying to stay awake for 72 hours, trying to use a skill saw and a hammer and nails to make fine furniture, trying to wallpaper a room properly)
DC 10: So difficult it is probably impossible to do this without training. Or, extremely hazardous, such as climbing a tree trunk without hardly any branches, swimming in deep and fast flowing (warm) water, skiing on advanced slopes, attempting iceskating figures or maneuvers, attempting ballet movements, maintaining fast dancing. Or mentally challenging, figuring out calculus equations, working out physics, or solving complicated chemistry.

No, a 10 is easy. I'm positive you mean 20.

Seriously, look at the skill descriptions. Sometimes the skill descriptions are too short, however, so it's hard to know how skilled you have to be in order to be competent at a skill. Generally speaking, a +10 is sufficient for non-adventuring purposes.

PS for Diplomacy, follow the house rule link in my signature. (It's nearer the top of the page.)

- +2 bonus from 5 ranks in Knowledge (nobility / royalty)

This is why I don't use synergy bonuses. They're silly. How does this skill give you a +2 bonus to Diplomacy when dealing with anarchist peasants? I think synergy bonuses should be up to the DM. Let the players ask for the bonus, and let the DM apply it "when appropriate".

 

[Voadam]

Here is the chart for skills from the srd. If you have not seen the srd before it is most of the rules from the 3.5 PH, DMG, and MM without any of the flavor text or pictures and it is put online for free by WotC.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35

So here is the skill DC chart from the srd:

Difficulty Class
Some checks are made against a Difficulty Class (DC). The DC is a number (set using the skill rules as a guideline) that you must score as a result on your skill check in order to succeed.

Table: Difficulty Class Examples
Difficulty (DC) Example (Skill Used)
Very easy (0) Notice something large in plain sight (Spot)
Easy (5) Climb a knotted rope (Climb)
Average (10) Hear an approaching guard (Listen)
Tough (15) Rig a wagon wheel to fall off (Disable Device)
Challenging (20) Swim in stormy water (Swim)
Formidable (25) Open an average lock (Open Lock)
Heroic (30) Leap across a 30-foot chasm (Jump)
Nearly impossible (40) Track a squad of orcs across hard ground after 24 hours of rainfall (Survival)

 

[William Ronald]

Edena, this thread is entertaining and a good idea. The questions you ask may well help people who are moving from earlier editions int0 3.5, as well as new players.

I will second what kenobi65 said about difficulty classes. You can find the sample chart on page 31 of the DMG. Also, many of the skill descriptions have examples of DCs. (As for the example that he used, this was without the use of any enhancement bonuses from a Cloak of Charisma. Friendly and Helpful can mean different things to different people and creatures. So, a helpful reaction from Alustriel in the Realms is one thing and a helpful reaction from Orcus might be another thing. In the first example, your PC is likely to get help, advice, and some assistance. Orcus may see being helpful to someone as transforming them into a powerful undead being and taking them to the Abyss to be a favored slave or overseer of slaves. Nightfall can perhaps comment on this. )

As for spiked chains, a good strategy to use against a spiked chain wielder is to keep your distance and attack with spells and melee weapons. Heat metal might be a very useful spell in this instance. A hold person spell can be used to stop the spiked chain wielder, and one character can disarm him while another closes in to attack him.) Sundering the spiked chain can also work, as I have seen PCs use this against foes.

A good guide to strategy in D&D 3.5 is to know your foes strengths and weaknesses. Going toe to toe with a raging barbarian might not be a good idea. However, targeting him with spells that he has poor saves against is a good strategy. So is changing his physical environment (transmute rock to mud) or using summoned creatures. Remember that a player's best asset is his mind.

 

[Storm Raven]

How hard is a Difficulty Check (DC) roll?
Seriously.
Because in the skills everything relies on a DC roll, and I see it in other aspects of the game as well.
But DC numbers don't mean anything to me, if I can't relate them to specifically difficult things, or a specific level of difficulty.

I will give my preliminary estimate (my best guess) of the DC difficulties. Would you, then, give me feedback on that? And would you give your own estimates of what the numbers mean?

You've overestimated the difficulty of most things. I believe you have not yet gotten to the Take 10 rule, which basically says that for most skills, in an ordinary, non-stressful situation, you can "Take 10", with the result that you will get a "10" on your d20 roll without rolling. This represents an average everyday effort. This is true for all skills that do not specifically say you cannot Take 10 with them (such as Use Magic Device, whose text prohibits the use of Take 10).

So, for example, most everyday people in a campaign world will make their living with a Craft or Profession skill. They will generally Take 10 on a daily basis, with the result being the ordinary result. Most adventurers Take 10 on common skill checks like Search (for searching a room), or other mundane tasks (like climbing a tree outside of combat). This has the result that a DC 10 skill check is something most people can do on a regular basis under normal conditions.

An individual with training in a skill (say 4 ranks, the max for a 1st level character) could normally make a DC 14 check. Most artisans and peasants are likely to have Skill Focus in their primary occupation, meaning they could Take 10 and make a DC 17 skill check on a normal basis. For example, the village blacksmith, as a 1st level human commoner (see the DMG for the NPC classes), with 4 ranks in Craft: Blacksmithing and Skill Focus (Craft: Blacksmithing) and no stat bonuses would have a +7 modifier to all Craft: Blacksmithing tasks. If he Takes 10, he can regularly succeed at a DC 17 check.

(As a side note, you may ask, what is a stressful situation? Combat is the primary stressful situation that crops up in games. Other things can be stressful too - trying to climb a mountain during an avalanche would be a stressful situation. Trying to disarm a trap while the floor slowly tilts to drop you into a pit of lava would be another. This basically is a DM call).

So, setting DC 10 as the standard for what most people can accomplish untrained at a skill (assuming that most people have the "standard array" of stats of 10, 11, 10, 11, 10, 11and thus no stat bonuses or penalties), you get an array more or less like this:

DC 0: An easy task, something most people could do even while being attacked by wolves.
DC 5: A task that an individual with ordinary training could routinely accomplish under stress.
DC 10: A task that almost anyone could accomplish under normal circumstances, but would be tough for an untrained person, and of medium difficulty for a trained person if they were under attack at the time.
DC 15: A task that a trained individual could regularly expect to succeed at under normal circumstances.
DC 20: A task that will usually require more than normal effort for a trained individual and would be very hard for an untrained individual.
DC 25: A task that a trained individual could accomplish through repetition (using Take 20), or if they got lucky; or a highly skilled person (say, a very focused 3rd or 4th level character)could make. (For example, a 3rd level half-elven expert, with 6 ranks in Diplomacy, 5 ranks in Bluff, 5 ranks in Sense Motive, 5 ranks in Knowledge: Nobility and Royalty, the Skill Focus (Diplomacy) feat and the Negotiator feat would have a +19 on Diplomacy checks, and could make a DC 25 Diplomacy check with a Take 10).
DC 30: A very difficult task.
DC 40+: An insanely difficult task, usually only accomplishable by characters working in concert (via Aid Another) or by higher level characters very focused on the skill in question.

Just so you know, you can Take 20 with some skills, but much less often. Take 20 basically requires that there be no penalty for failure with the skill, and you take 20 times as long as normal for the skill check. The net result is that you get a result of a "20" plus your skill modifier. So, for example, if you wanted to Search a chest for traps, you could normally Take 20 with the Search skill, because there is no penalty for not finding a trap that might be on it. A normal Search check takes one round, to Take 20 would require 20 rounds. Your end result would be 20 + your Search bonus. Using Disable Device to disarm a trap that you found is another story - if you fail your Disable Device check by 5 or more, you set the trap off - so there is a penalty for failure. You cannot Take 20 to disable a trap. You could, however, under normal circumstances, Take 10.

 

[MerricB]

Edena, one feature of the skill system is that you can "Take 10" when not under pressure. So, instead of rolling the die, you just assume it rolled a 10.

If you have time (and there's no penalty for failure), you can "Take 20" on many skills - basically, it takes 20 times as long and it is treated as if you rolled a 20. That tends to get used for Search and Open Lock rolls a lot - but not Disable Device, as that triggers a trap.

DC 0 - very easy, you can do it asleep.
DC 5 - pretty easy. Assuming you're not distracted, you'll be able to do it. e.g. Climbing a wall with the aid of a rope.
DC 10 - easy, if somewhat chancy.
DC 15 - moderate
DC 20 - hard
DC 30 - difficult
DC 40 - nearly impossible.

Mostly you find that the DCs are given in the books. I rarely need to make them up on the fly.

Cheers!

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Thank you, folks, for putting these up. I'm studying them now.

(reposts your charts, compares them, and looks at the SRD (a lot).)

Very easy (0) Notice something large in plain sight (Spot)
Easy (5) Climb a knotted rope (Climb)
Average (10) Hear an approaching guard (Listen)
Tough (15) Rig a wagon wheel to fall off (Disable Device)
Challenging (20) Swim in stormy water (Swim)
Formidable (25) Open an average lock (Open Lock)
Heroic (30) Leap across a 30-foot chasm (Jump)
Nearly impossible (40) Track a squad of orcs across hard ground after 24 hours of rainfall (Survival)

DC 1 auto success, no effort required
DC 5 really easy
DC 10 Requires effort, 50% chance of doing it with no training, but simple with sufficient training
DC 15 Getting hard, you better have some training and natural skill if you want to do this right
DC 20 Hard. requires skill and luck to reliable accomplish
DC 25 real hard
DC 30+ real real hard, etc

DC 0: An easy task, something most people could do even while being attacked by wolves.
DC 5: A task that an individual with ordinary training could routinely accomplish under stress.
DC 10: A task that almost anyone could accomplish under normal circumstances, but would be tough for an untrained person, and of medium difficulty for a trained person if they were under attack at the time.
DC 15: A task that a trained individual could regularly expect to succeed at under normal circumstances.
DC 20: A task that will usually require more than normal effort for a trained individual and would be very hard for an untrained individual.
DC 25: A task that a trained individual could accomplish through repetition (using Take 20), or if they got lucky; or a highly skilled person (say, a very focused 3rd or 4th level character)could make. (For example, a 3rd level half-elven expert, with 6 ranks in Diplomacy, 5 ranks in Bluff, 5 ranks in Sense Motive, 5 ranks in Knowledge: Nobility and Royalty, the Skill Focus (Diplomacy) feat and the Negotiator feat would have a +19 on Diplomacy checks, and could make a DC 25 Diplomacy check with a Take 10).
DC 30: A very difficult task.
DC 40+: An insanely difficult task, usually only accomplishable by characters working in concert (via Aid Another) or by higher level characters very focused on the skill in question.

DC 0 - very easy, you can do it asleep.
DC 5 - pretty easy. Assuming you're not distracted, you'll be able to do it. e.g. Climbing a wall with the aid of a rope.
DC 10 - easy, if somewhat chancy.
DC 15 - moderate
DC 20 - hard
DC 30 - difficult
DC 40 - nearly impossible.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

My impression from the combined charts above:

DC 0 (VERY EASY) This is something you can do without special training, and without thinking about it. Actions such as walking, talking, eating, drinking, breathing, and the like.

DC 5 (EASY) This is something that is hazardous to do without Taking 10 (without actually thinking about it before doing it), but can be done without special training and can still be done without thinking much on it. Climbing a tree, basic rollerblading, basic rollerskating, basic skiing, basic iceskating, climbing a ladder, standing on a steep rooftop, shovelling snow off of a slanted rooftop, driving in a torrential downpour and high winds, and the like (in other words, things that would get Yours Truly killed or seriously injured if he wasn't careful and thought about what he was doing.)

DC 10 (AVERAGE) This is something that is very hazardous to do without Taking 10. People just don't attempt things like this without thinking it out first (Taking 10) or sitting and really thinking it out first (Taking 20.) Climbing a tree with few branches, high speed rollerblading, high speed rollerskating, moderate skiing, high speed iceskating, climbing a very tall ladder, running across a steep rooftop, shovelling snow on a steep rooftop, driving in a blizzard or hurricane force winds, or trying to play a series of notes on key on a violin/flute/piano (that is, many people die or are injured (or just fail miserably and produce no notes) attempting these things, primarily because they didn't think it out first, or 'rolled' badly, or someone else didn't think it out or 'rolled' badly.)
It is best, with a DC 10 challenge, to have some training in the endeavor attempted, but it is not obligatory. Anyone can attempt these efforts, but trained people take the least risk.
A typical Player Character isn't going to have any problems with performing any task with a DC of 10.

DC 15 (TOUGH) This represents something that nobody who is untrained should attempt (or is able to, sometimes) attempt. A trained person can attempt this action with ease. Of course, untrained people sometimes make the attempt anyways, and fatalities and injuries are common (not to mention simple failure and frustration.)
Typing 40 words per minute, solving a calculus equation, calculating a solution to a simple engineering or archetectural problem, flying a small aircraft, painting a house, wallpapering a house, properly varnishing a hardwood floor, repairing a broken part on a car, attempting common ballet or iceskating maneuvers, skiing down a very advanced slope with many trees, swimming some distance in very cold water, attempting to do a professional's job (you pick the profession) when you aren't a professional but the task would be simple for the professional, and so on.

DC 20 (CHALLENGING) This sounds to me like the staple of professionals, both mental and physical. That is, the routine tasks (impossible or nearly impossible to an untrained person, challenging to a trained person, easy for a trained person who 'Takes 20' and considers and studies the matter first) of an auto-mechanic, carpenter, electrician, architect, engineer, construction worker, steeple-jack, aircraft pilot, computer software designer, professional ballet dancer, professional circus performer, or the like.
It also represents people doing fairly exotic things, and succeeding. Skiing down a mountain, climbing a thin silken rope, dead lifting 300 pounds, doing 10 pull-ups (or similar things far, far beyond the capacity of Yours Truly.)

DC 25 (FORMIDABLE) This sounds like Limited to Professionals only. And it is an effort for them, typically needing a 'Take 20' roll. Professionals can't, typically, just do these kinds of things without thought or preparation. Repairing a badly damaged automobile engine, designing a new piece of computer software that reliably works, designing the electrical system of a large building, taking the Space Shuttle through a tricky maneuver, reentry into Earth's atmosphere for an astronaut, playing at the level of a Concert Violinist or Concert Pianist, attempting difficult ballet or iceskating moves, difficult and impressive circus acts, all sound like DC 25 acts.

DC 30 (HEROIC) This is the kind of thing that makes for Television Specials. The best feats of Circ Du Soleil, winning the gold/silver/bronze medals in an Olympic Event, winning the Master's Tour in Golf, being a world famous Concert Violinist or Pianist and bringing down the house with a master performance, solving an extremely difficult engineering or architectural problem, attempting supremely difficult ballet or iceskating maneuvers, running for 30 miles, walking for 60 miles without stopping, barrelling right through a wall of linebackers (when you're the quarterback and you have the football: it never happens), running at 20 miles per hour (the world record is 21 miles per hour), leaping over Michael Jordan's head in basketball and scoring (that also never happens), trying to ski down from the very top of Mt Rainier (I saw someone try it and fail ...), throwing the basketball from one end of the court and having it score at the other end, intimidating an angry grizzily bear without using your voice or a tool.
Landing a military aircraft on an aircraft carrier for the first time, or performing the top abilities of a trained SEAL or Army Ranger would fall under DC 27 or 28. Take-off for an astronaut (remaining fully functional, maneuvering the craft, dealing with all sorts of unexpected emergencies, all the while under 7 Gravities) would count as a DC 27 to 30 act.
Sitting out in the snow all night with your fellow monks, in temperatures near zero, with no clothing on ... and being perfectly fine the next day, and the snow around you melted.

DC 40: Surviving a 100 mile per hour head-on collision with a semi, when you're the one in the small car. Recovering fully without brain or nerve damage when you've been nearly decapitated (someone is doing that right now.) Walking a mile to call for help, carrying your severed arm (severed at the shoulder) with you. Surviving a fall from 30,000 feet. Surviving a fall onto concrete from 500 feet up. Swimming a mile in Antarctic Waters to the Antarctic Mainland (water temperature 28 degrees) without any protection or help (someone did that.) Some of the things you read in Ripley's Believe It or Not. Charging a machine gun nest, taking a full strafe, and taking the nest (Audy Murphy.) Putting back on your armor, getting back on your horse, charging the enemy, and scaling the enemy wall when you have an arrow in you (Joan of Arc.) Trying to get up and walk right after major exploratory surgery in the chest. Trying to survive major exploratory surgery without anaethesia or any other aid. Placing a hot iron against yourself and branding yourself without feeling anything, through sheer will and meditation.

DC: I do these things automatically: why do you ask?
DC 5: I can do this. It's easy.
DC 10: I can do this. It's hard, but I can do things when I put my mind to them.
DC 15: I can do this because I'm trained, but don't you try it. Enthusiasm and effort isn't enough here.
DC 20: I can do this. I'm educated, have years of practice, and I'm going to think on it.
DC 25: I can do this, maybe. I'm a real professional, but this is asking an awful lot.
DC 30: I'm one of the best in the world at this, so it's possible if I'm really at my peak.
DC 40: You're asking me to perform a superhuman feat, a miracle.


Is this closer to being right?