Comments and questions on 3.5 from a Newbie

[MerricB]

Everyone gets an equal share of experience automatically? That is a change. It prevents certain kinds of jealousy (but not other kinds of jealousy, sadly.) It also rewards lazy characters ...

Incidentally, by 3.5e rules, lower level PCs gain more XP than higher level PCs for defeating the same enemy... so they can catch up. 3e really works best when the PCs are very close in level to each other.

I noticed the change in hit points. A bigtime change. But then again, characters can inflict more damage now (as can the monsters. I hope that Stoneskin spell is still in there ...)

It is, although it works differently: it absorbs 10 damage from each weapon blow *unless* that weapon is made of adamantine, and absorbs a maximum of 10 hp/level (max 150).

I sorta got the impression the Rogue's Sneak Attack was the 3.5 equivalent of the old Backstab (but I'm not to the Rogue yet.) If it works whenever there is Flat-Footedness, Dex is denied, or the opponent is Flanked, it's much more versatile (the old Backstab required Surprise AND attacking the rear of the target ...)

Correct. Much, much more useful.

Unnamed Bonuses?

+2 armour bonus to AC
+2 bonus to AC

The second is unnamed, and thus stacks with everything.

If you have 18 Dexterity, your Dexterity Bonus is equal to what Armor Bonus you'd get from Chainmail (+ 4) which was a popular historical type of armor.
So why wear chainmail? (Because when you're caught Flatfooted, you're dead without it? LOL ...)

You use both.

A Chain Shirt gives a +4 armour bonus to AC, your Dex gives a +4 Dex bonus to AC. The result is an AC of 18.

(Incidentally, Chainmail is +5 armour bonus and a max Dex bonus of +2).

So Elven Chainmail would be Light Armor, give a + 4 Armor Bonus, and allow almost the full Dexterity Bonus. Basically no Arcane Spell Failure Chance.

See page 220 of the DMG (and the really great picture by Todd Lockwood).

Elven Chain: +5 armour bonus, armour check -2, max Dex +4, light armour, 20 pounds weight, arcane spell failure 20%

Mithral Shirt: +4 armour bonus, armour check -0, max Dex +6, light armour, 10 points weight, arcane spell failure 10%

Amulets of Natural Armor? Would they grant a Natural Bonus to Armor Class? (After all, that would stack with the Armor Bonus, Dexterity Bonus, Dodge Bonus, and so on.)

They give a Natural Armour bonus to AC. It's like toughening your hide; dragons don't wear normally wear armour, but have good natural armour. A Dragon that wears armour is scary...

Uh ... ok. A wizard CAN'T change his spells midday. But he can leave some of his spell slots blank. Still a major empowering of the class (Ok, I memorize my Magic Missile for those orcs up at the top of the hill in the trees.)

Wizards can also scribe scrolls from first level.

To scribe a scroll of a 1st level spell costs 12 gp and 5 sp, takes one day, and burns 1 XP.

To scribe a scroll containing four 1st level spells costs 50 gp, takes one day, and burns 4 XP.

That's a major empowering of the class!

Cheers!

 

[Hairfoot]

What? What is this heresy? Where's Diaglo?

I warn you now - D&D 3.5 is like a mobile phone. You don't really need it, but once you have it you'll never know what you did without it.

New D&D corrupts even the simplest ideas.

In 1E, Lyralee the bard only needs six stats and some hitpoints to become a living character. Play her in 3.5 and you'll end up like a stockbroker: poring over tables of skills and modifiers with a calculator, trying figure out how your mithril-bodied psionic half-illumian can get a +1 dodge bonus to armour class by flanking a large opponent while wielding a light piercing weapon over rough terrain.

Cherry-pick good rules from 3.5, but keep it 1E at heart.

3.5. Boogie-boogie-boogie!

 

[wingsandsword]

No. A wizard can not prepare a few slots and then prepare them later (proportional time; 15 minutes minimum for all preparation).

Actually, I have to correct this:

Players Handbook 3.5, Page 178:

"When preparing spells for the day, a wizard can leave some of those slots open. Later during that day, she can repeat the preparation process as often as she likes, time and circumstances permitting. During these extra sessions of preparation, the wizard can fill these unused spell slots."

"After resting, a wizard must study her spellbook to prepare any spells for that day. If she wants to prepare all her spells, the process takes 1 hour. Preparing some smaller proportion of her spell capacity takes a proportionally smaller amount of time, but always at least 15 minutes, the minimum amount of time required to achieve the proper mental state."

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Hey there, MerricB. Yeah, Arilyn and Danilo are favorite characters of mine, too.
Thanks for the feedback!

Now, I played a cleric for 20 years, and have strong opinions on the matter. Rather than vent them, I'll let my reaction to what the 3.5 cleric is like speak for me. (grins)

It says: Good clerics heal, protect, and avenge. I love it! I am vindicated! (In a certain long ago film, Taraak the Defender said: When life is taken for naught, the Pact is, to Avenge. And now avenging a good act, straight from the horse's mouth!)

Clerics are the healing, spellcasting warriors they should have been from the start.

They receive proficiency in all Simple Weapons, but 1 level in Fighter gives them all Martial Weapons also. They can wear Light, Medium, and Heavy Armor.
Clerics have the 2nd best BAB. They have 3 attacks per round at 20th level (in 2E, they never got more than 1 attack per round at ANY level.)
Clerics have more powerful healing spells in 3.5 (Cure Light Wounds, Cure Moderate Wounds, Cure Serious Wounds, Cure Critical Wounds all heal more damage than in 1E or 2E.)
Clerics can change any memorized spell into a healing spell.
Clerics now gain spells up to 9th level (I saw a Quest spell or two, from the 2E Tome of Magic, in their spell list ...)
Clerics now get an extra Domain spell at each level (choose one from one Domain source.)
Clerics get Granted Powers for their Domain, which can be used as a Spell-Like Ability.
Clerics need not worship a Diety. They can worship Good or Evil, Law or Chaos. (Good is IT. Clear and simple. Understand?! )
Clerics have more offensive spells than they had in 2E (and you can add the 2E spells from the Tome of Magic if you want, too!)
Clerics have more spells in general than in 2E.

It says: A cleric is a party's best friend. LOL. Because back in 1E and 2E, the cleric was the Useless Person whom you Dragged Forward Occasionally to Turn Undead, and Heal the Wounded Fighters.
Not any more.

I noticed in skimming the Combat Rules that if you are dying (- 1 to - 9 hit points) even 1 point of magical healing would stabilize you and completely prevent any chance of your dying.
A cleric gets 3 0 level spells at 1st level. That's three party members saved.
A party's best friend, indeed!!

Clerics can now wield any kind of weapon they want. In 1E, they were forbidden to shed blood but could use blunt weapons (which didn't make sense, since a 5 pound mace connecting with your head typically sheds blood, unless you are an undead. )
Now my cleric of Odin can wield sword, spear, bow (YES, no more stupid slings), mace, or anything he pleases. And if he has the War Domain, he gets proficiency in that deity's favored weapon.

Did I mention that I think that they have improved the cleric?

Turning Undead, ah yes. For some reason, every DM assumed turned undead would never come back. (If I was a wraith, and some snotty goody-goody human cleric turned me, I'D come back. PAYBACK TIME.)
Of course, destroyed undead have nothing to say in this matter ...

I see that neutral clerics can now command undead. Not a comfortable matter for the party paladin, but useful (Wraith, attack that monster! Ghoul, fetch that item! Ghast, smell up the entire palace! Zombie, open that chest!)
Back in 1E and 2E, it was quite rare that DMs allowed neutral clerics to command the undead.

Ah, but good clerics can't use Evil Spells? And evil clerics can't use Good spells? GOOD. Because they SHOULDN'T BE. (Moral relativism aside!)
Evil clerics can't download their spells into cure spells? They must take cause wound spells? GOOD. THAT'S HOW IT SHOULD BE. Evil is EVIL, not expedient. If the evil cleric has a problem with that, then he shouldn't have followed the Vile Ways, should he?

Did I mention I think they've improved the cleric in 3.5E over 2E? Why, yes I did ...

(Bring forward the 2E spells from the 2E Tome of Magic, and heavens help you if you run into an enemy cleric.)

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Ah, a wizard can leave spell slots open. And she can fill them later, in one session or many sessions. Got it. Thanks, wingsandsword. (And thank all of you who are providing feedback to my posts. My sincere thanks.)

Concerning your post, Hairfoot, I agree. You can get bogged down in rules.
But you can also play Sky is the Limit. Take the 3.5 rules, add in the Anything Is Possible concepts of 1E and 2E, and have ... well, as Burger King would say, have it your way.

But first you have to know the 3.5 rules. A minor point.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

It tickles me pink that the Druid can be more Good than most Good Clerics. THAT is a change!

Druids can now be Neutral, Neutral Good, Neutral Evil, Lawful Neutral, or Chaotic Neutral.
But remember your Planescape?

Neutral Good is the ULTIMATE Good. There is no Good that is more Good than Elysium. The Seven Heavens are less Good and more Lawful. Arborea is less Good and more Chaotic.
Neutral Evil is the Ultimate Evil. The Gray Waste is more evil than the Nine Hells or the 666 Layers of the Abyss, but not Lawful or Chaotic.

So the Neutral Good Druid could choose to be super-good, as it were (or, slightly good, just above the neutral line.) She could choose to be super-evil, too. Just as long as she reveres nature, she's fine.

That's quite a change from the 1E and 2E druids, who believed in Militant Neutrality and only Neutrality and Balance.
A Neutral Good Druid who chooses to be super good will not believe in maintaining the good/evil Balance.

I like it that druids are more flexible in this matter. For Nature is truly beautiful, and truly horrible. Ask anyone who works outdoors if this is not the truth.
A good druid could turn her Forest into a Paradise, based on her personal vision.
An evil druid could create a new Forest Under Nightshade (from the Simarillion) and wallow in it's delightful dreadfulness.
A lawful druid might place a You Must Carefully Attend All Campfires sign (and heavens help you, if you disobey the law in THIS forest!)
A chaotic druid could delight in storms, tempests, and teasing all those on two legs who enter her demense for amusement. If said two legged beings take offense and hurt the forest, then the teasing becomes a gleeful torture (ala the Old Forest.)

I always liked Druids, back in 1E and 2E.
I noticed the nerfing of the Wildshape ability. I do not know how to fix that, except to go to the 3.0 Wildshape ability instead. It makes more sense to me, because at high level Druids in 3.5 gain the ability to shapeshift into Elementals, and when they do they gain all the Extraordinary, Supernatural, and Spell-like abilities of the Elemental. It's like going from 35 degrees to 90 degrees, and doesn't quite make sense. I'll stick with the 3.0 Wildshape.

I will say more on druids in the next post.
I think Vadania is a classic moon elf, by the way. (Yes, I know that is not what was intended, but that's how she appears to me. Moon-elves are just that: very pale skinned.)
What IS that nasty looking weapon she is carrying? That's not a scimitar!

 

[kenobi65]

Just a few clarifications...

Clerics have the 2nd best BAB.

Just FYI, there are three BAB progressions in 3E:
- 1/1 (BAB goes up by +1 every level) -- fighter-types get this
- 3/4 (BAB goes up by +1 on 3 out of 4 levels) -- clerics, druids, monks, rogues, and bards get this one
- 1/2 (BAB goes up by +1 every other level) -- wizards and sorcerers get this one

Clerics have more powerful healing spells in 3.5 (Cure Light Wounds, Cure Moderate Wounds, Cure Serious Wounds, Cure Critical Wounds all heal more damage than in 1E or 2E.)

Yeah, the "+ level" bonus to the healing done is very nice. And, if the cleric has the Healing domain, his effective level is one higher for casting curing spells.

Clerics can change any memorized spell into a healing spell.

Mostly. Domain spells cannot be swapped out for healing spells.

Clerics get Granted Powers for their Domain, which can be used as a Spell-Like Ability.

Depends on the domain; some domains grant specific spell-like powers, while others have other effects (like the Healing domain noted above).

Clerics can now wield any kind of weapon they want.

Yup, with the exception of classes with specific vows regarding armor or weapons (e.g., druids), anyone can use any weapon or armor they want to. Of course, if they're not proficient with it, they suffer penalties, but it's no longer a case of "you just can't do it."

I see that neutral clerics can now command undead.

Yup, it's possible now. The player has to decide, at character creation, if he's going to turn or rebuke undead.

 

[kenobi65]

I see they strengthened Two-Weapon Fighting in 3.5, based on your post (+ 2 / + 6 in 3.5 to + 2 / + 2 in 3.0.)
Ok, I see that the Feats can give you a second attack with your off-hand at - 5, and a third attack at - 10. Do dexterity modifiers affect THOSE penalties?

No, Dex doesn't change those penalties, either, though, as others have posted, you need a high Dex to be able to take those Two-Weapon Fighting feats in the first place. Banish from your mind the thought that high Dex will help TWF!

As you've seen, if you have a high enough Base Attack Bonus (+6 or higher), you get a second (or more) attack per round...these are called "iterative attacks". When you get a BAB of +6, you get a second iterative attack at -5 from your BAB (so, if your BAB is +6, your second attack would be at a base bonus of +1). When your BAB gets to +11, you get a third attack at -10, and when your BAB gets to +16, you get a fourth attack at -15.

All of those iterative attacks are done with the primary weapon. Even if you have a BAB of +16 or higher, and can make 4 attacks per round with that primary weapon, you still only get one attack with the off-hand weapon...unless you have the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting or Greater Two-Weapon Fighting feats.

What Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting are essentially giving you is one or two "iterative" attacks with the off-hand weapon...which is why they're at -5 and -10, respectively. This is also why the prerequisites for those feats are BAB of +6 and +11, respectively -- this keeps you from being able to get a second (or third) attack with the off hand before you qualify for getting the second (or third) attack with the primary weapon.

 

[Staffan]

I've read the Critical Rules. Nasty. And some weapons are a lot better at criticals, like that funny looking knife (The Kukri.) You get double, triple, or quadruple the damage (before Strength modifiers.) 2 - 16 isn't bad damage for a long sword.

Note that on average, 19-20/x2 is as good as 20/x3. One gives you twice as many crits, the other gives you twice the benefit of them (+100% damage vs +200%)

I see clerics have Favored Weapons. They do not have to take a Feat to gain proficiency in that weapon. THAT'S nice (but I have a lot more to say about clerics below.)

They need a feat unless they have the War domain (which grants proficiency and weapon focus in the weapon). Other than that, the only game effect is that if they cast Spiritual Weapon, the weapon takes on the threat range/crit multiplier of their favored weapon.

Ok, the Enhancement bonus is in ADDITION to the 'Magical Bonus' of 2E. + 3 Shield with + 4 Enhancement. The 3 is the 2E Magical Bonus converted. The 4 is the Enhancement bonus.

No, the enhancement bonus is the plus. A suit of +2 full plate (which normally gives a +8 armor bonus) gives a total armor bonus of +10 (+8 armor + 2 enhancement to that armor bonus).

I've heard you can have + 10 Shields this way. LOL. Where do (did) I get one of those for my 2E character? ...

Not quite (unless you're using epic-level rules... which, given your predeliction for 160th-level characters could happen). You can't have an enhancement bonus of more than +5 on a weapon, shield or armor. However, you can add additional abilities to your item, and in most cases these bump up the cost of the item as if it had had a higher bonus - a +1 flaming sword costs as much as a +2 sword. This way, you can have an item that's effectively +10, but the actual bonus is "only" +5.

So, the Deflection bonus diverts attacks? That is important for many reasons. Someone fires a gun at your character, for instance (or, a plasma bolt from a particle cannon ) the Deflection bonus would work against it. It would work against thrown rocks by giants, ballistae bolts, and the blast wave of an explosion (such as, a whole keg of smokepowder going off 20 feet away.)

It would work against anything that requires an attack roll, including things that use touch attacks (it's one of the few "common" bonuses that work both when flatfooted and against touch attacks - armor/natural armor/shield doesn't work against touch attacks and Dex doesn't work when flatfooted). Area attacks (like the smokepowder), not so much.

If Evan the Bard rolled a 10, his modified score would be a 28, then. That's because he has a + 18 to Perform. Thus ... well, it says others have to use the bard's Perform check as their saving throws (for certain Bardic Musical Abilities.)
Does that mean they use a 10? Or do all the bard's modifiers come crashing in, meaning they need a - 8 to succeed in their rolls (miss save only on a natural 1) ?

No, it means they use 28 instead of their saves (or they could roll and take the better one). Ditto for abilities that use the Perform skill check as a save DC.

I previously said that I thought a + 4 / - 4 bonus or penalty was huge in 3.5. Thus, that - 6 / - 10 penalty for two weapon fighting is nothing short of colossal. Drizzt Do'Urden took a lot of Feats, to overcome that one!

Not that many, really. Two feats in 3.0 (Two-weapon fighting and Ambidexterity), one in 3.5 (Ambidex was folded into TWF). IIRC, he probably has Improved and Greater TWF as well, but those don't change bonuses, they "just" give you more attacks (a second and third off-hand attack, at -5 and -10).

Incidentally, I see no reason why ALL the modern instruments (such as violin, cello, oboe, bassoon, french horn, trombone, etc.) couldn't be in the campaign world. Elves, dwarves, and others have had millennia to create such items.

There is a sourcebook (Complete Adventurer) that has rules for having different instruments give different modifiers to various bardic music abilities.

Ok, I see that the Feats can give you a second attack with your off-hand at - 5, and a third attack at - 10. Do dexterity modifiers affect THOSE penalties?

No. Note that those penalties are the same as you get for second and third attacks with your main weapon as well - if you look at the base attack bonuses for the various classes, you'll see that you get a second attack at +1 when you hit BAB +6, and a third at +1 when you hit +11. The -5 and -10 penalties are there to mimic that. However, the Improved and Greater TWF feats require progressively higher Dex (17 and 19), though the ranger doesn't have to worry about those prereqs when he gets them as bonus feats.

OK, I have contradictory opinions on Inspire Greatness. One person says it only adds 2d10 hit points plus Con bonus. Another says it adds 2 fighter levels (that's not a small thing.) It can't be both.

I said it was sort of like two levels of fighter. If you look at the fighter class and see what they get for two levels, it is: +2d10 (+2*Con) hp, +2 to hit, +1 to Fort saves, sometimes +1 to Ref and Will saves, +1 feat, +4 (+2*Int) skill points. Inspire Greatness gives you the first three of those.

I sorta got the impression the Rogue's Sneak Attack was the 3.5 equivalent of the old Backstab (but I'm not to the Rogue yet.) If it works whenever there is Flat-Footedness, Dex is denied, or the opponent is Flanked, it's much more versatile (the old Backstab required Surprise AND attacking the rear of the target ...)

That is correct. Sneak attack is MUCH better than the old backstab. It also doesn't punish the rogue for using roguish weapons - since backstab was based on the weapon damage, you would rather use it with big weapons to get the most of it, but now it's a fixed number of dice so the weapon doesn't matter as much (for a 9th level rogue, it's not much difference between 1d4+5d6 with a dagger or 1d12+5d6 with a greataxe).

Amulets of Natural Armor? Would they grant a Natural Bonus to Armor Class? (After all, that would stack with the Armor Bonus, Dexterity Bonus, Dodge Bonus, and so on.)

Technically, they grant an enhancement bonus to your Natural Armor (which is considered to be 0 even if you don't have any natural armor). For most PCs, the effect is the same as a Natural Armor bonus itself, but it means that even a creature with thick hide gets a benefit from it.

Clerics now get an extra Domain spell at each level (choose one from one Domain source.)
Clerics get Granted Powers for their Domain, which can be used as a Spell-Like Ability.
Clerics need not worship a Diety. They can worship Good or Evil, Law or Chaos. (Good is IT. Clear and simple. Understand?! )

In most cases, the granted power of the domain is not a spell-like ability. In some cases, it's an expanded skill selection (Trickery). Sometimes it's a bonus feat (War).
However, since you're familiar with FR... you remember all those specialty priests in Faiths & Avatars that had a series of granted powers like "At level 1, use spell A, B or C once per day as a spell-like ability. At level 2, use spell D or E once per day..."? That's pretty much what the extra domain spell does. Also, the FR book has a setting-specific rule that says you have to worship a deity to get divine spells of any kind (not just clerics, but also druids, paladins and rangers) - but that's a FR thing, not a general D&D thing.

Did I mention that I think that they have improved the cleric?

The cleric and druid are generally considered the most powerful classes. It's sort of a bribe to play the healer.

I see that neutral clerics can now command undead.

Note that this is a choice made on character creation, not on the fly. It is also linked to the cure/inflict wounds thing - a cleric that turns undead can convert his spells into cures, a cleric that commands them converts to inflicts. Most parties will greatly prefer the former.

 

[kenobi65]

And, as long as we're on the topic of two-weapon fighting...

What you'll discover is that there's basically three "fighting builds" you can create in 3E / 3.5:

- Two-handed weapon
- Two one-handed weapons
- One handed weapon + shield (a.k.a. "sword and board")

If one's looking to do maximum damage, wielding a two-handed weapon (most typically a greatsword or greataxe) is usually the way to go. The combination of being able to add 1.5 times your STR bonus to the damage, along with the way the Power Attack feat works in 3.5, generally makes this style the most effective.

That said, it is certainly possible to make effective fighters with the other builds.