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5E Comments on this spell?

One of the players in my main campaign wants to create this spell. I have slowly worn it down in power, but this still looks too much for a third level spell. I think it needs to be concentration, what else do people think need to be changed about it?


LEVEL 3rd CASTING TIME 1 Action
RANGE/AREA (5 ft ) COMPONENTS V, S, M *
DURATION 1 Minute SCHOOL Conjuration ATTACK/SAVE None
DAMAGE/EFFECT

You touch a point in the air, creating a well that reaches into the Magic Weave, enhancing magic effected in its proximity. For the duration, purple strands of Weave fabric become visible as they dance in the air to the tune of spells being cast and concentration being held. The effect of every cantrip or spell cast using a slot of 3rd level or lower by a creature starting its turn in the well is increased by 1 die. The type of die is determined by the spell being cast.
The well remains stationary and can only be dispelled by a magic nullification spell like Dispel Magic or Antimagic Field
Any creature who can see the Weave fabric's motion in the well can determine which spells is being cast, provided that the creature knows the spell and succeeds an Arcana Check (DC 15). The DC increases by 5 for each spell being cast or held in concentration.
When cast at a higher level, the maximum spell level increases accordingly.
 

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Dausuul

Legend
I would make the following changes:

1. Requires concentration. It's a powerful buff (consider its use with, say, green-flame blade or spiritual weapon) that should not stack with other buffs.
2. Only damage rolls are boosted. This is a safety measure to prevent boosting some oddball parameter of a spell that happens to have a die roll attached.
3. Remove the DC increase when multiple spells are being cast/maintained. This is not for balance reasons, but just because it's making things unnecessarily complicated.
 

cbwjm

I can add a custom title.
I'd say that yes, it does need to be concentration. The level might be okay, an extra die of damage isn't all that powerful although if you have two or three casters in the AoE I could see how that would stack up, that does mean they are also vulnerable to AoE damage though.

The wording could do with a bit of simplification, you don't need to point out that it can only be dispelled by Dispel Magic or Antimagic field, that is pretty much a given because that's how those spells operate. The last part about determining the spell begin cast can probably be dropped since it is a rule in Xanathar's anyway.
 


cbwjm

I can add a custom title.
Is the wording right for cantrips once you hit 5th level? You suddenly cannot fire off 2 Eldritch Blasts twice for 4d10?
That's a good point, maybe it should also have the standard requirement of having it apply only to a single damage roll for each casting of a spell.
 

That is the basic problem I have, like if every missile in Magic Missile becomes 2x1d4+1. 6d4+6 never missing force damage every turn is a lot.

Wands and scrolls "cast" spells, so need to understand the interaction there as well.
 

aco175

Hero
I might make the range larger so that it may include bad guys as well. 5ft defaults to only the caster. 60ft means that all casters in the fight boost damage, but the caster maintains concentration.

I also think a 3rd level spell should only modify lower level spells and this should be 4th level.
 

These are some comments I made and a few new ones, quite helpful. I want him to be able to create a spell, just one that is balanced.
 

Benjamin Olson

Adventurer
I think making it Concentration is probably unnecessary. As far as I can see it creates a 5ft area of some sort (that should be written into the spell better, but it's your home game so as long as everyone at the table knows how it works whatever) that does not move. Forcing spellcasters to plant in a small spot for all their casting is likely limitation enough, and the lore and aesthetics of the spell clearly play on having concentrations for various spells going. The small space also means that there is a practical limit to how much multiple casters could share one well. Theoretically they can make an orderly conga line of upcasting, but that seems like a plan unlikely to survive contact with most enemies. If it's not concentration though I feel like it should have a one well at a time limit. If the area of effect was larger I would say concentration is needed.

I think for ease of play the effect should just be upcasting all spells by one level, because then the rules for what the effect is are already written into all the (non-Cantrp) Spells. Some spells have multiple types of dice being rolled (Chaos Bolt). Some would add additional complications to just add an additional die to (Scorching Ray: does it mean an extra d6 on each of the three 2d6 beams, or just the first one, or what?). Some spells use dice in ways not directly linked to the power the way damage dice or healing dice are (Mirror Image). Upcasting is more powerful in some cases, less in others, and applies to many spells this wouldn't and not some that it would, so I understand if it's not what you're going for, but I think there is a lot to be said for exploiting an existing mechanic to modify spells that's already baked throughly into the spell system rather than trying to litigate how a new one applies to dozens of spells.

For damage Cantrips it should just treat them as though the caster were of the next cantrip upgrade level (I'm not sure what the most elegant way to say that it but I think people probably know what I mean).
 

GAMR

First Post
Hi all,

I am the player behind this spell idea. I will try responding to all the comments as I can.

Pros:
a) Increases spells' potency
b) Effect can be used by multiple allies

Cons:
c) Casters must remain in place
d) Casters must remain close together
e) Effect can be used by adversaries

First, on the topic on concentration, I decided against it for the following reasons:
- If the caster is forced to move out of the well, like with a [Create Bonfire], his adversaries can then use it. If it required concentration, then the caster could simply decide to stop concentrating on the spell to prevent adversaries from using it. It's part of the balancing considerations.
- The suggestion to simply give it long range to both require concentration and keep [e] would break [c] & [d].

Second, on the topic of damage increase with things like [Eldritch Blast] and [Magic Missile]:
- Yes, it would increase both those spells by 1 die.
- The [Magic Missile] damage increase is still less than then [Empowered Evocation] with a decent INT. Sure, this is obtained at a potentially lower level, but unlike [Empowered Evocation], [Weave Well] consumes a slot and takes your action that turn to enable, requires the caster to remain in place, and only lasts a minute, whereas [Empowered Evocation] applies to all evocation spells. Considering all this, I don't think that it adds too much damage to [Magic Missile].
- Where Eldritch blast is concerned, it is still adding 5.5 avg dmg to each blast, which compares well to the 28 avg fireball damage over the whole duration, which when looking at [Weave Well] as a reverse-AOE makes some sense, where an AOE requires your adversaries to be close together, while this one requires your allies to be very close together in a specific location.

Thirdly, on the topic of effect increase method:
- I decided on simply adding 1 die instead of simply going to the next level because of the cantrip question, indeed, but also considering a spell cast a 9th level in the well would have no next level to go to. As you mention, [Chaos Bolt] is indeed a special case. You give me some to thing about.

Fourthly, on the topic of simplyfying the description:
- The mention of dispelling options was there to emphasize that you can't simply dispell it at will as the caster, but I think you're right, it's implied in the rest of the description and isn't necessary. I'll remove it.
- Regarding the mention of identifying the spell, I had completely forgotten about that section in XGtE. I'll leave a sentence about the casting being clearly visible to make clear that innate spellcasting properties and [Subtle Spell] won't prevent observers from noticing the spell being cast, but I'll remove the duplicate bits already covered by XGtE.
 

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