D&D 1E Common House Rules for AD&D?

[Calithena]

Back in the day the single most common house rule that I can remember was each DM's initiative system. Probably fewer than a quarter of the games I actually played in where the AD&D books were the default rules actually used segment initiative as written.

 

[Nikosandros]

Back in the day the single most common house rule that I can remember was each DM's initiative system. Probably fewer than a quarter of the games I actually played in where the AD&D books were the default rules actually used segment initiative as written.

I wonder why. The rules are so clear and intuitive. Especially the part about taking the absolute value of the difference between the attacker's weapon speed factor and the initiative roll and comparing it to the spell casting time.

 

[Lanefan]

Back in the day the single most common house rule that I can remember was each DM's initiative system. Probably fewer than a quarter of the games I actually played in where the AD&D books were the default rules actually used segment initiative as written.

Hardly surprising, given the as-written 1e initiative system was close to unplayable.

 

[overgeeked]

Hardly surprising, given the as-written 1e initiative system was close to unplayable.

It was fine in the AD&D PHB. It’s only when you try to use every caveat and Dragon article and later supplement that it becomes insane.

 

[Lanefan]

It was fine in the AD&D PHB. It’s only when you try to use every caveat and Dragon article and later supplement that it becomes insane.

Fair enough, though even the stock PHB version could still use a lot of help (the biggest change being individual initiatives rather than group, rerolled each round).

 

[Willie the Duck]

AD&D initiative works fine, if needlessly fiddly*. It's mostly 1d6 to go first, with a bunch of exceptions. If it had been explained completely, clearly, and concisely in a single section of text with some useful examples, it would... still have been ignored for houserules or BX/BECMI ports by half the groups, but not been so widely seen as a nightmare. It's complex, it's hard to parse, it's not that hard to implement.


*Needlessly being obviously subjective. And all the segment-counting does serve a purpose (especially the part where it delineates when during the round a caster's spell can be disrupted). However, man there are simpler ways to accomplish the same basic outcomes.

 

[Mannahnin]

Hardly surprising, given the as-written 1e initiative system was close to unplayable.

It was fine in the AD&D PHB. It’s only when you try to use every caveat and Dragon article and later supplement that it becomes insane.

I think you misspelled "Dungeon Master's Guide" in that second sentence. Without any Dragon articles or supplements the system detailed purely in the DMG is already extremely opaque, complex, and full of special cases, making it indecipherable to most players. Even those able to puzzle it out inevitably simplify it, cutting out or altering usually not just edge cases like potion onset times but more core elements like how segments work.

Could you explain how it works using just the 1E PH? It's not purely side-based, as in the example of combat the evil illusionist and orcs win initiative on both rounds, but somehow the PC Thief still backstabs him in round 2 before his spell goes off.

 

[Mannahnin]

AD&D initiative works fine, if needlessly fiddly*. It's mostly 1d6 to go first, with a bunch of exceptions. If it had been explained completely, clearly, and concisely in a single section of text with some useful examples, it would... still have been ignored for houserules or BX/BECMI ports by half the groups, but not been so widely seen as a nightmare. It's complex, it's hard to parse, it's not that hard to implement.


*Needlessly being obviously subjective. And all the segment-counting does serve a purpose (especially the part where it delineates when during the round a caster's spell can be disrupted). However, man there are simpler ways to accomplish the same basic outcomes.

One of my gaming white whales is to fix the 1E initiative system to make it clear and understandable and simplify it a little so my players can also understand it.

Lately I've been kludging B/X with elements of 1E initiative and asking the players to trust me, that I'm trying to make it feel more real and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt where I can.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

It was fine in the AD&D PHB. It’s only when you try to use every caveat and Dragon article and later supplement that it becomes insane.

Not really. The PH was written with thinking still largely orienting around the OD&D combat rules. It has TWO (count 'em! TWO!) pages talking about actual combat rules (pp104-105). Everything not covered there had to be imported from OD&D (or even Chainmail) for another year. The actual full 1E rules came to light that following year with the publication of the DMG, where those rules ballooned to, I believe, 24 pages and most definitely complicated the VERY simple d6 rolls and the side with higher roll goes first, with multiple, differing initiative procedures to be used based on PAIRS of opponents fighting each other with specific forms of combat (magic, melee, and missile fire).

That's not a dragon article or rules supplement, it's the final form of the AD&D combat rules. Initiative in it still sucked, but it wasn't supposed to be the simple system from OD&D/1E PH anymore (though, again, it CLAIMED to be a simple system...). Hell, I don't really even recall any dragon articles making major changes (but then the group I was in at the time was using a completely different set of combat rules that I've never even heard of anyone else using), and the first official book I recall making real changes to combat procedures after the 1E DMG was actually SECOND edition.

 

[PHATsakk43]

If I was ever going to play 1E AD&D I'd just use 2E's base initiative rules as they were simple but also extensible if you wanted to add more fiddly bits like weapon speeds and casting times.