[Comp Adv] Master of Many Forms & Transmutation immunity

[Felix]

The final ability of the Master of Many Forms gives the character the (shapechanger) subtype and immunity to Transmutation effects. Isn't immunity to Disintegrate and a host of other spells a little much for a 10th level PrC ability? I would have thought that Immunity to Petro/Polymorph would have been enough...

Or am I missing something?

 

[Hammerhead]

Alternatively, it's possible to just be a 17th level druid or so and use the spell Shapechange to gain nearly everything the Shifter...err, Master of Many Forms has, as well as benefitting from a wide array of other powerful spells.
Disintegrate and Polymorph immunity is hardly much to brag about; the Druid/MoMF has good Fortitude saves in both of his classes, and the most logical stat for a MoMF to increase would be Constitution (more hit points). I don't think immunity to a few spells that would be unlikely to work on the character to begin with is much to worked up over.

 

[Diirk]

Wouldn't immunity to transmutations be a bad thing? There are a lot of powerful buffs in the transmutation school... or is it only immunity to harmful transmutations?

 

[Felix]

use the spell Shapechange to gain nearly everything the Master of Many Forms has, as well as benefitting from a wide array of other powerful spells.

It's not all a balance thing for me... it's also a flavor thing. The MoMF is a shapechanger, so I can see how he'd thwart most spells from the Transmutation school. But:

Being a shapechanger makes him immune to the Blindness effect of Pyrotechnics?
to being Slowed?
to the Combat Maneuver of Telekinesis?
to Reverse Gravity?
to his body being locked in time with Temporal Stasis?

It just doesn't seem like those spell effects have much to do with keeping one's own form. Sure, Disintegrate changes your body into powder, so that might slide by there. But immunity to the whole school?

There are a lot of powerful buffs in the transmutation school... or is it only immunity to harmful transmutations?

He can allow them if he so chooses. Kinda like unbeatable SR that he doesn't have to spend a Standard Action to lower.

 

[Plane Sailing]

It reads to me like a stupid mistake on the authors part. Creatures with the shapechanger subtype are normally immune to polymorph, I'm sure that is what is in mind here.

Immune to the transmutation school? No way!

 

[Diirk]

Well actually creatures with the shapechanger subtype are normally NOT immune to polymorph type effects, however they can spend a standard action to revert out of it if they so desire.

As such:

Incorporeal or gaseous creatures are immune to being polymorphed, and a creature with the shapechanger subtype can revert to its natural form as a standard action.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Immune to the transmutation school? No way!

To reiterate Hammerhead's point: What's the big deal? As it stands, this is an ability that any character can get with a +5 market value armor property (proof against transmutation, CA); it covers a relatively small number of effects; and the druid/MoMF has a nice high save against these effects anyway, meaning the ability doesn't actually provide much incremental benefit. Plus, the MoMF is pretty weak to begin with. Compare with some of the other classes out there, like oozemaster, waveservant, or slime lord of Ghaunadaur, which grant immunity to crits (a +5 armor property), as well as a host of other immunities (flanking, etc.) as their 10th-level ability.

 

[drnuncheon]

To reiterate Hammerhead's point: What's the big deal?

I think it's more a matter of internal logic than it is of power. It's easy to see how being able to change your own shape might make you immune to polymorph. It's much harder to see how that would make you immune to people trying to turn you to dust, or being stopped in time, or having gravity reversed.

J

 

[ruleslawyer]

Y'know, it's uncanny. I had planned to say exactly that ("of course, immunity to transmutation effects that don't involve form alteration aren't really justified by the class's flavor") as a cautionary, and just sorta forgot. Good point there!

 

[Li Shenron]

Immunity to every spell from the largest school seems too much to me as well. Maybe it's a mistake which may be errata later. Does the PrCl really only say "immunity to all transmutations" or does it specify anything else?