D&D 5E Comparing Monk DPR

[auburn2]

Your argument is a poor one and ignores common sense and the scientific method.

When you balance and compare things you have to control variables. Race is a variable and to control it, you take a vanilla human with +1 to all stats and use it for every class. That way everyone can get 16 in their main stat. Then you balance all classes around that.

Some races will make classes better, some will make some classes worse. But, all classes should be balanced outside of the race.

Don't assume a greatsword for a fighter because all races can't use that. You say you want to eliminate race as a variable, yet you assume a weapon not able to be effectively used by all races, and worse a weapon that some races can't even get a feat or multiclass to be able to use.

It is great not to want a variable because of race, but that is a poor choice when you choose as your standard one of the most uncommon chosen races. Standard Human is a poor race to use as a basis for comparison as virtually no one plays that race. You should choose variant human, which is the most common race, and a variant human Monk can use a longsword at level 1.

Bottom line, either you are allowing racial traits or you are not. You can't have it both ways, and if you allow some of them, you need to allow all of them. Otherwise you are just picking and choosing which ones to allow to strengthen your argument.

 

[FrogReaver]

Don't assume a greatsword for a fighter because all races can't use that. You say you want to eliminate race as a variable, yet you assume a weapon not able to be effectively used by all races, and worse a weapon that some races can't even get a feat or multiclass to be able to use.

It is great not to want a variable because of race, but that is a poor choice when you choose as your standard one of the most uncommon chosen races. Standard Human is a poor race to use as a basis for comparison as virtually no one plays that race. You should choose variant human, which is the most common race, and a variant human Monk can use a longsword at level 1.

Bottom line, either you are allowing racial traits or you are not. You can't have it both ways, and if you allow some of them, you need to allow all of them. Otherwise you are just picking and choosing which ones to allow to strengthen your argument.

I think there's a bit of middle ground to be had there. There's a race if not multiple races that can grant +2/+1 for nearly any stat combination. Many people gravitate toward races that help their classes primary and secondary attributes. Thus, assuming a generic +2/+1 seems to be a fairly reasonable assumption. But most people don't choose whatever race is going to ink out the absolute most DPR possible and thus looking at racial options to fully maximize DPR ends up not being a very reasonable assumption as it's just not how most people play.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The monk optional feature reads:

"The chosen weapon must meet these criteria:

• The weapon must be a simple or martial weapon.
• You must be proficient with it.
• It must lack the heavy and special properties."

Monks are not proficient with long-swords.

It isn’t hard to get proficiency.

 

[Lord Twig]

There has been arguments here that Monks don't get magic items like other classes do, and some examples are given, but the obvious ones seem to be left out.

First, Rings or Cloaks of Protection are good for everyone, and good for Monks no less, but Bracers of Defense are great for a Monk above probably all other classes.

For weapons it seems to me that +1 quarterstaves or spears would not be too rare, and at higher levels I don't think any other class would get more out of a Staff of Striking than the Monk. The Sun Blade is also a good choice.

As others have mentioned longswords, warhammers and battleaxes are now possibilities depending on the race or feats of the particular Monk. And a lot of sword based magic weapons can come in a shortsword variant.

The difference between a shortbow and longbow is 1 point of damage and they both can use the same magic arrows.

I'm sure there is more I am missing.

 

[Asisreo]

There has been arguments here that Monks don't get magic items like other classes do, and some examples are given, but the obvious ones seem to be left out.

First, Rings or Cloaks of Protection are good for everyone, and good for Monks no less, but Bracers of Defense are great for a Monk above probably all other classes.

For weapons it seems to me that +1 quarterstaves or spears would not be too rare, and at higher levels I don't think any other class would get more out of a Staff of Striking than the Monk. The Sun Blade is also a good choice.

As others have mentioned longswords, warhammers and battleaxes are now possibilities depending on the race or feats of the particular Monk. And a lot of sword based magic weapons can come in a shortsword variant.

The difference between a shortbow and longbow is 1 point of damage and they both can use the same magic arrows.

I'm sure there is more I am missing.

From levels 15+, a +1 dagger does more DPR than your quarterstaff as a monk.

 

[Stalker0]

It isn’t hard to get proficiency.

Let’s look at this for a moment seriously. I’ll admit that my initial instinct was “no you shouldn’t include race” but I’ll admit the “assume 16 dex is in itself a racial assumption” argument holds some weight to me.

so to the question, what options does a 1st level monk have to wield a d10 weapon and have a 16 dex (assuming 15 base)?

 

[fearsomepirate]

Let’s look at this for a moment seriously. I’ll admit that my initial instinct was “no you shouldn’t include race” but I’ll admit the “assume 16 dex is in itself a racial assumption” argument holds some weight to me.

so to the question, what options does a 1st level monk have to wield a d10 weapon and have a 16 dex (assuming 15 base)?

Mountain dwarf. Since Tasha's, a mountain dwarf is just "+2 to any two stats of your choice."

 

[Zubatcarteira]

With Variant Human you can put a +1 in dex, then get Weapon Master for another +1 there and proficiency in four weapons.

 

[Lord Twig]

Mountain dwarf. Since Tasha's, a mountain dwarf is just "+2 to any two stats of your choice."

Also hill dwarf. High or wood elf even without Tasha's, and the wood elf adds +1 to Wis. I think that is about it.

 

[Lord Twig]

From levels 15+, a +1 dagger does more DPR than your quarterstaff as a monk.

Who is doing more DPR with a +1 dagger? I guess a rogue? I haven't done the math, but I think a +3 staff with an extra 10d6 force damage per day in the hands of a level 15 monk can out DPS even a level 15 rogue with a +1 dagger. You save the extra d6s for a crit of course.

And that wasn't my argument anyway, I was just pointing out that there are some great magic items for the monk. People always get stuck on +1 to +3 armor and swords, but if there is magic studded leather for the rogue, magic breastplate for the barbarian and magic plate for the fighter, why isn't there a magic ring or bracers for the monk? Staffs would seem to me to be pretty common, and a Staff of Striking for a monk would be like a Holy Avenger for the paladin. If you play up to high levels the monk should definitely be given a chance to get one.