D&D 3E/3.5 Complaining about 3.5 weapon size rules

[Aaron2]

A Dagger with a 4.5" long blade and a 0.75" wide grip is a Tiny weapon for me, a Medium sized person. If you scale that up to a Greatsword size you get a blade that is 48" long and a grip that is 8" wide. Ok, stop for a moment and read that again. You end up with a grip EIGHT INCHES wide.

I wish I knew who made this originally.

 

[Storyteller01]

Please don't use real world logic when it comes to what weapons are realistic. In a game with gnome hook hammers and dire flails, you really can't justify anything by saying "in the real world, x weapons are most popular".

Halflings fight just like anyone else. They're not small, everyone else is big. They have militia and scouts and armies just like anyone else. They do just as well against humans as humans do against ogres - which is to say, it sucks, but they deal.

Halfling weaponsmiths make weapons just like a human weaponsmith... .you don't see human weaponsmiths saying "You know... I would like to make you a rapier, but that's not a very realistic weapon to use when fighting an ogre... care to buy a crossbow?"

Small people make small things. Period.

-The Souljourner

The rules can be changed because 'real world logic' says that smaller or larger races can't use human sized weapons but would use human like weapons based on human tactics. Can't I use the same premise to help prove othewise?

 

[Storyteller01]

Well, except for the Roman armies. The gladius was their primary weapon for most of the Republican period, and well into the Imperial era.

They were used after the enemy got through the javelins, spears, and shield walls.

 

[Storyteller01]

No, it isn't.

A 3E shortsword scaled for a Large wielder isn't a longsword; it still deals Piercing damage. Longswords don't.

-Hyp.

hat just a mathematical mechanic. reealistically, longswords and short swords are capable of both types of damage. They both are better at piecing, given the armor they had to go through. what type of damage a weapon does is moot.

 

[Storyteller01]

First off, the ability to have every weapon available for any character regarless of that character's size is a significantly useful thing. In 3.5, I can make a single weapon entry for a new weapon (such as a Falx) and there are clearly defined rules for use of this weapon by anybody regardless of size. This just wasn't true in 3.0. Look at the AU weapon lists; you've got entry after entry of weapons that vary only by their size like Faen Shortaxe, Sprytebow, Giant's bow, Faen nunchaku etc. None of this is needed anymore.

Overall, I find the newer rules much less complicated than the old ones.


Aaron

be it is more realistic (using the same logic as to why the change was made in the fist place). While most weapons are similar, just about every weapon ever created (until international mixing occurred) had been cultural specific. AEuropean had never used a Katana because it is not effective against full plate. japanese didn't use full pate because they would be dead from heat stroke during the summer months. Cultures make their own weapons for a reason. Why should every one get to use them??

 

[Hypersmurf]

what type of damage a weapon does is moot.

Not if you're fighting a zombie, it isn't!

And not if you want to make a vorpal weapon...

If the damage type is moot, does that mean that a 3E Warhammer sized for an Ogre is really a Greataxe?

-Hyp.

 

[MerricB]

Cultures make their own weapons for a reason. Why should every one get to use them??

That's a DM decision, not a rules problem.

The DM may allow or disallow access to any weapon on the table. For instance, I do not allow PCs to buy Hand Crossbows, because only the drow have them and there is no contact with the drow.

The rules merely give you the solution to what happens when two priests smuggle out the secret of hand crossbows and they are adapted for regular use by various cultures. (The priests actually smuggled silkworms out of China, but anyway...)

The 3.5e rules give consistent rules for allowing any size of combatant to use a particular weapon. I urge you to look at the different attempts at the Ogre's Bastard Sword (the Fullblade) and how clumsy they were in 3e.

The 3e rules were a mess in that regard. Very big races (such as Storm Giants) had weapons that were named for normal sized weapons, but with a size qualifier; this was inconsistent with the dagger/shortsword/longsword/greatsword nomenclature that you argue for.

Is there such a thing as a halfling's dagger in 3e? Why not? And what proficiency do you need to use it? The nomenclature is very important indeed.

Consider, a halfling's rapier. Can a Halfling Rogue use it? We'd have to assume that he could. (And at no penalty) Could a halfling wield a human's rapier? By the 3e rules, absolutely - and at no penalty.

If the halfling found an ogre's rapier, could he wield that? No. However, could the human fighter wield it?

The 3e rules implied a lot for weapon scaling, but during the work on Savage Species, the designers realised that they broke down utterly. An ogre was suddenly a legal character race. What weapons could it use? A human's greatsword could be used, but it is only a 1-handed weapon for the ogre. What about an ogre's greatsword? Ahh... at that point you approach the 3.5e rules.

One of the most attractive features about 3e was how it handled monsters, and with many humanoid monsters, you need good weapon scaling rules. 3e did not have those.

Cheers!

 

[MerricB]

Weapon Size Quiz

Answer these questions using the 3e rules.

* Can a halfling wield a human-sized (Medium) Rapier? Is there any penalty for doing so? What proficiency is needed?

* Can a halfling wield a halfling-sized (Small) Rapier? Is there any penalty for doing so? What damage does it deal? What proficiency is needed?

* Can a human wield a halfling-sized (Small) Rapier? Is there any penalty for doing so? What damage does it deal? What proficiency is needed?

* Can a human wield a human-sized (Tiny) Dagger? What proficiency is needed?

* Can a human wield a halfling-sized (Diminuitive) Dagger? Are there any penalties? What damage does it do? What proficiency is needed?

* Can a human wield an ogre-sized (Medium) Dagger? Are there any penalties? What damage does it do? What proficiency is needed?

* Can a storm giant wield an ogre-sized (Huge) Greatsword? Penalties? Damage? Proficiency?

Rules references are appreciated.

Cheers!

 

[Storyteller01]

Not if you're fighting a zombie, it isn't!

And not if you want to make a vorpal weapon...

If the damage type is moot, does that mean that a 3E Warhammer sized for an Ogre is really a Greataxe?

-Hyp.

Arms & Armor (an OGL Source) has vorpal equivalents for all three types of weapons. basically, if its a critical, the thing dies (unless it has a unique anatomy)

Again, that's a mechanical issue, and easy to solve. Unless the creature has a unique immunity, then either weapon will do damage. dead is dead, unless your really need to know what weapon kill the beasty.

 

[Storyteller01]

Weapon Size Quiz

Answer these questions using the 3e rules.

* Can a halfling wield a human-sized (Medium) Rapier? Is there any penalty for doing so? What proficiency is needed?

* Can a halfling wield a halfling-sized (Small) Rapier? Is there any penalty for doing so? What damage does it deal? What proficiency is needed?

* Can a human wield a halfling-sized (Small) Rapier? Is there any penalty for doing so? What damage does it deal? What proficiency is needed?

* Can a human wield a human-sized (Tiny) Dagger? What proficiency is needed?

* Can a human wield a halfling-sized (Diminuitive) Dagger? Are there any penalties? What damage does it do? What proficiency is needed?

* Can a human wield an ogre-sized (Medium) Dagger? Are there any penalties? What damage does it do? What proficiency is needed?

* Can a storm giant wield an ogre-sized (Huge) Greatsword? Penalties? Damage? Proficiency?

Rules references are appreciated.

Cheers!

As you mentioned earlier, these would be DM answered questions, and most of these would be relagated to common sense. even when concidering penalties. i agree that the issue needed to be dealt with, but I don't believe that the rules is 3.5 are the best approach.