Complete Adventurer Erratta Posted--ATTENTION ALL SCOUTS!!!

[Felon]

Wouldn't this 5-attack-5 require the shot on the run feat anyway? Given the cost, I don't see the problem.

No, the scout moves 5 feet, then immdiately steps back into the square he started from, then attacks. It's probably the lamest move available for a class that's supposed to encourage mobility, but the benefits of flanking are often sacrificed if a scout attacks from another square.

 

[FireLance]

Like it or not, many folks are conditioned to think Disable Device is necessary for disarming a trap.

You are probably correct, but it won't stop me from using a house rule to condition my players to think otherwise .

 

[Gez]

So, if I read this errata right, the scout is no longer forbidden from adding skirmish damage on attacks of opportunity, right?

 

[FireLance]

On paper, I agree it's a neat idea--there is an entire section in the PHB on disabling traps withouth the Disable Device skill. But it's often unused and I can tell you from playing a scout that a DM often does not want to get into the nitty-gritty mechanical details of how a trap works. And with spell traps, there are no real details--it either will go off or it won't.

In playing a scout, I routinely found the trap, then just had the barbarian smash the door or the chest, which he was inclined to do anyway. Which kinda makes the finding pointless. Or I'd try something clever to get around the trap (like using a hatchet on the side of a chest to circumvent the trap in the lock) only to have the poison gas come jetting out anyway.

It appears that your DM has a different idea of what it means to circumvent a trap. No nitty-gritty mechanical details are required. A trap should have well-defined game effects. Those effects can be minimized with the right tactics and abilities. Total defense can help counter traps that use a to-hit roll. Evasion can negate the effect of traps that deal damage and allow for a Reflex save. Pits can be jumped over. Traps that deal energy damage can be mitigated with resist energy or protection from energy. Antitoxin can help resist the effects of poison. And so on.

 

[moritheil]

The damage is precision damage--it doesn't work against non-critable creatures, for instance--so, no it's not extra momentum. The erratic movement allows the scout to catch his opponents with their guard down.

I will thank you to avoid misinterpreting me in the future. I took pains to clearly state that this was the rationalization made by many players, not that I personally believed this. I even mentioned that I found no support for it whatsoever in the rules, as you have pointed out.

My sole aim in mentioning it was to answer the question "why do people dislike the 5' shuffle?"

Again, I don't see this explicitly in the rules, but it's a very easy way to rationalize it . . .

 

[Felon]

So, if I read this errata right, the scout is no longer forbidden from adding skirmish damage on attacks of opportunity, right?

I edited my initial post to put the erraticized portion of the sentence in bold red.

To answer your question, no. Since only that one sentence is modified, the sentence following it that stipulates "the extra damage applies only to attacks taken during the scout's turn" is still in effect.

 

[Felon]

It appears that your DM has a different idea of what it means to circumvent a trap. No nitty-gritty mechanical details are required. A trap should have well-defined game effects. Those effects can be minimized with the right tactics and abilities. Total defense can help counter traps that use a to-hit roll. Evasion can negate the effect of traps that deal damage and allow for a Reflex save. Pits can be jumped over. Traps that deal energy damage can be mitigated with resist energy or protection from energy. Antitoxin can help resist the effects of poison. And so on.

And in the face of a gas trap, a character might just hold his breath? Yes, I've tried similiar tactics with mixed results at best. Sometimes they were accepted as intelligent workarounds, and often they were regarded as trying to weasel my way out of not having ranks in Disable Device and wasting time.

To put a head on the matter, since the effects of a trap are often not fatal, both DM's and players find it counter-productive to devise elaborate workarounds more than once or twice an adventure. After that, it's either disarm it or suck it up.

I will thank you to avoid misinterpreting me in the future.

I rarely see someone edit a post to make it more testy than it was originally.

 

[moritheil]

I rarely see someone edit a post to make it more testy than it was originally.

Of course, it is clearly and obviously entirely my fault when I get annoyed that someone who didn't closely read my post implies that I don't know what I'm talking about. All blame resides with me, and you should avoid anything that looks like an apology for fear of seeming weak.

 

[Thanee]

On paper, I agree it's a neat idea--there is an entire section in the PHB on disabling traps withouth the Disable Device skill. But it's often unused and I can tell you from playing a scout that a DM often does not want to get into the nitty-gritty mechanical details of how a trap works. And with spell traps, there are no real details--it either will go off or it won't.

In playing a scout, I routinely found the trap, then just had the barbarian smash the door or the chest, which he was inclined to do anyway. Which kinda makes the finding pointless. Or I'd try something clever to get around the trap (like using a hatchet on the side of a chest to circumvent the trap in the lock) only to have the poison gas come jetting out anyway.

Like it or not, many folks are conditioned to think Disable Device is necessary for disarming a trap.

I can see how it is no fun then. If I DM, it is usually possible to circumvent a trap, and a character with the trapfinding ability would get better details than one without, to help with that. Sometimes a trap must be sprung, sometimes it can be avoided. Depends on the situation, of course. A character with the Disable Device skill would be at an advantage, but it wouldn't be required to get past the trap unharmed.

Bye
Thanee

 

[FireLance]

And in the face of a gas trap, a character might just hold his breath? Yes, I've tried similiar tactics with mixed results at best. Sometimes they were accepted as intelligent workarounds, and often they were regarded as trying to weasel my way out of not having ranks in Disable Device and wasting time.

To put a head on the matter, since the effects of a trap are often not fatal, both DM's and players find it counter-productive to devise elaborate workarounds more than once or twice an adventure. After that, it's either disarm it or suck it up.

I'm not talking about trying to avoid the trap by stepping outside the rules, e.g. holding your breath, turning the chest to face the wall, etc. I guess it boils down to how you play the game - if I was DMing a pre-errata (or houseruled) scout who found a trap, I would make sure to tell him something useful about the trap (e.g. it creates a blast of sonic energy, it makes an attack roll, it releases poison gas, etc.) instead of just saying, "You find a trap," in order to give the scout some inkling of how to reduce its effects. Effectively, the party will have to suck it up in order to get past the trap, but with the right preparation, they have a better chance of avoiding damage, or get damaged less.