Kobold Avenger
Legend
Has anyone ever tried to make a Wu Jen/ Fighter/ Eldritch Knight with Practised Spellcaster to get the most of their exclusive spell Giant Size?
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Complete Arcane base classes
- Thread starter mfrench
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Kanegrundar
Explorer
I like the Warlock. With the right evocations they are a great addition to any party. Depending on the situation, they can either be extremely useful to the point of possibly overpowered to very weak. Overall, I like that balance.
Warmage is alright as well. They can be extremely powerful, but don't have much in the way of defensive spells giving them a glass jaw that evens them out.
Wu Jen are interesting. I haven't gotten around to playtesting them yet, but it's on my to do list. If they play anything like they did in OA, then they'll be fun to play.
Warmage is alright as well. They can be extremely powerful, but don't have much in the way of defensive spells giving them a glass jaw that evens them out.
Wu Jen are interesting. I haven't gotten around to playtesting them yet, but it's on my to do list. If they play anything like they did in OA, then they'll be fun to play.
Psion
Adventurer
Kobold Avenger said:
No, but that sounds like a cool build.
I think Wu Jen is okay (with the exception that a few of the spells on their list need moved up or down in levels), but in hindsight, I think what was really needed was a 3.5 OA, not tapping OA for filler in the other books.
And though I like d20 Rokugan, since Rokugan and d20 have parted ways, I'd leave Rokugan stuff out. (Though I guess Legend of the Samurai sort of fills this niche, seeing something broader would be cool.)
smootrk
First Post
If you are looking for alternate casters, you might check out the Heroes of Horror book as well. The Dread Necromancer is a specialist arcane caster, much like warmage, only using necromantic spells. The Archivist is very much like a Wizardly type of caster, with the exception that divine spells from the clerical list are what he chooses from, and may even add other divine spells (like druid, domain or special PRC divine spells) to his "Prayer-Book (spellbook)". Both are very interesting options.
The warlock isn't broken and other than flavor reasons. The Warlock could just as easily get those abilities from a benign source, or being dumb about it, the God of Sprites. Look at that DR, people! 
They seem on the weak side to me in experience and simply are not worth it. Want a ranged class? Play an archer.
Next up, the Warmage. These are decent, with a feat they cast in Full Plate(THE BOMB), and since many of their spells require ranged touch attacks they usually have a nice armor class(for a Mage). Two reasons to play, as I see it:
The military angle is pretty cool and there are some nice payoffs for it. If there is a cleric or a sorcerer they are a nice 5th man.
Reason Number 2:This is the ultimate noob caster. What do a lot of new players do, especially sorcerers? Waste precious spells known on learning too many "blow up the outside world" spells. This is a great class for people who want ease-of-use and kabloom 90 times a day. Perfect noob class, second arcane user, or people who are just burnt out on hard choices.
They seem on the weak side to me in experience and simply are not worth it. Want a ranged class? Play an archer.Next up, the Warmage. These are decent, with a feat they cast in Full Plate(THE BOMB), and since many of their spells require ranged touch attacks they usually have a nice armor class(for a Mage). Two reasons to play, as I see it:
The military angle is pretty cool and there are some nice payoffs for it. If there is a cleric or a sorcerer they are a nice 5th man.
Reason Number 2:This is the ultimate noob caster. What do a lot of new players do, especially sorcerers? Waste precious spells known on learning too many "blow up the outside world" spells. This is a great class for people who want ease-of-use and kabloom 90 times a day. Perfect noob class, second arcane user, or people who are just burnt out on hard choices.
I've not seen a Warmage in play. I have, however Dm'd for a Sorcerer that took only combat spells, so using that as a comparison I would say it is a balanced class. Warmage like Sorcerer is a class you would probably want to find a appopriate themed PrC for.
I am currently DM'ing a 13th level Warlock now. I like the class, a lot. I throw quite a few strange circumstances at my party, so a class with non standard abilities has been pretty useful.
Last weekend the party came across a scenario where the self destruct button to the L shaped tower they were in was in the top of the L, while the escape boat was in the bottom. The Tower was 500' long total, and the central "Corridor" tube was filled with a toxic liquid that had non hydro dynamic properties. Movement in
the corridor was done by crystal "bubbles" pushed like a hamster pushes a hamster ball.
Needless to say one slightly botched puzzle later, a 5 minunte self destruct turned into a 1 minute self destruct. W/o the at will nature of the Warlocks Dimension Door, the party most likely would have died. W/o having a Warlock in the party, I as a DM would never have allowed for such a cinematic scenario .
The key to the Warlock is to treat the Eldritch Blast like a Wizard or Sorcerer treats his or her crossbow. W/o getting multiple attacks with it the Eldritch Blast is never going to stack up damage wise, however the Warlock in my campaign has used it to destroy quite a few doors or to eat through an opponents bow, or to tunnel etc. 9d6 damage/2 can still be pretty impressive damage to deal to an item.
I am currently DM'ing a 13th level Warlock now. I like the class, a lot. I throw quite a few strange circumstances at my party, so a class with non standard abilities has been pretty useful.
Last weekend the party came across a scenario where the self destruct button to the L shaped tower they were in was in the top of the L, while the escape boat was in the bottom. The Tower was 500' long total, and the central "Corridor" tube was filled with a toxic liquid that had non hydro dynamic properties. Movement in
the corridor was done by crystal "bubbles" pushed like a hamster pushes a hamster ball.
Needless to say one slightly botched puzzle later, a 5 minunte self destruct turned into a 1 minute self destruct. W/o the at will nature of the Warlocks Dimension Door, the party most likely would have died. W/o having a Warlock in the party, I as a DM would never have allowed for such a cinematic scenario .
The key to the Warlock is to treat the Eldritch Blast like a Wizard or Sorcerer treats his or her crossbow. W/o getting multiple attacks with it the Eldritch Blast is never going to stack up damage wise, however the Warlock in my campaign has used it to destroy quite a few doors or to eat through an opponents bow, or to tunnel etc. 9d6 damage/2 can still be pretty impressive damage to deal to an item.
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Shade
Monster Junkie
Regarding the warmage and dread necromancer, I'm really impressed with the fixed spell list combined with advanced learning class feature. This is brilliant design. It allows flexibility for these classes when a new supplement is released that ignores them, and doesn't require constant updating of the spell list to keep them on par with the other classes.
Kudos to whoever came up with that idea.
Kudos to whoever came up with that idea.
Drowbane
First Post
Warlock: The best of the new base classes that I've seen thus far (not counting anything out of Complete Psi, PHB II, or ToM... damn I'm behind on books! :/) I really dig the Warlock, its a bit underpowered in many ways... but I like the concept enough to play one anyways.
War Mage: Alot of people make the mistake of thinking of this class as a mage... to compare them to the wizard or even sorc. However, the truth is that the WM is a "powergamed fighter" who happens to have traded out some AC and HP to get ahold of the best "weapon" in the game.
Wu Jen: meh. IMC I mix up the WJ and the Sorc in attempt to give the Sorc its own niche... instead of just leaving it as the "Wizard-lite".
War Mage: Alot of people make the mistake of thinking of this class as a mage... to compare them to the wizard or even sorc. However, the truth is that the WM is a "powergamed fighter" who happens to have traded out some AC and HP to get ahold of the best "weapon" in the game.
Wu Jen: meh. IMC I mix up the WJ and the Sorc in attempt to give the Sorc its own niche... instead of just leaving it as the "Wizard-lite".
Drowbane
First Post
noticing a thread pattern here...
Fixed that for ya.
lol!!
Oh dear god... you were serious! o.0
I've got a Gestalt Wizard (or Psion?) | Archvist gestalt in mind for incase my current PC bites it....
So whats next Mfrench? Complete Divine base classes?
der_kluge said:
Fixed that for ya.
der_kluge said:
lol!!
Oh dear god... you were serious! o.0
smootrk said:
I've got a Gestalt Wizard (or Psion?
) | Archvist gestalt in mind for incase my current PC bites it....So whats next Mfrench? Complete Divine base classes?
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Joshua Randall
Legend
The problem with the warmage -- and this problem afflicts a lot of the spellcaster/warrior classes -- is that non-Good BAB, the inability to wear heavy armor, and a small hit die means you are unacceptable as a front-rank fighter.
The converse of this problem is why the cleric is such a powerful class. (Admittedly, the cleric has only Average BAB, but makes up for it with a plethora of powerful buffing spells.)
In any event, the warmage is wholly unsuited to be wading into melee. In fact, the class may as well have no armor proficiency and only simple weapon profs (like the wizard or socerer), because it relies on its spells to deal damage.
The converse of this problem is why the cleric is such a powerful class. (Admittedly, the cleric has only Average BAB, but makes up for it with a plethora of powerful buffing spells.)
In any event, the warmage is wholly unsuited to be wading into melee. In fact, the class may as well have no armor proficiency and only simple weapon profs (like the wizard or socerer), because it relies on its spells to deal damage.
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