Complete Divine info?

[MerricB]

The are also the Environment books and the Race books that it might turn up in.

Cheers!

 

[ForceUser]

Huh? You don't have access to the whole spell list, you have to choose what spells you know how to cast. That is the very essence of customizability.

Two Favoured Souls can be very different, based on the spells they know, in the same manner that two Sorcerers can be very different.

After that, you can choose the Feats you get as well.

Cheers!

You'd think that, wouldn't you? And it may even be true for DM-generated NPC Favored Souls. But for a Favored Soul PC who happens to be the party healer, you're going to find the sorcerer-like selection of spells dismally limiting. After all, as party healer you're going to want access to the usual bevy of cure spells, heal, neutralize poison, lesser restoration, restoration, raise dead, etc. Suddenly, the PC Favored Soul's comfortable spell selection looks far more limited. Unless, of course, you're not the party healer, then you're free to pursue whatever. But in my experience, classes that can heal end up healing, or dealing with social pressure to heal - thus, the PC Favored Soul ends up with a remarkably dull but utterly necessary spell selection, or a disgruntled party of adventurers. Not a pleasant choice. I'd rather play a cleric.

 

[Felon]

I wonder if Complete Divine will have any ranger stuff in it. A lot of folks on the Living Greyhawk yahoo lists are bummed cause Deepwood sniper wasn't in the CW. Now there thinking that DWS won't be in any of the books. A couple of feats from Masters of the Wild geared towards rangers were dropped too.

Just because something wasn't republished in CW, why does that mean it was "dropped" or otherwise rendered null and void? Was the Deepwood Sniper actually in need of significant revision after 3.5e came out? That was pretty much the main area of focus for CW, at least in regards to repackaged material.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Just because something wasn't republished in CW, why does that mean it was "dropped" or otherwise rendered null and void? Was the Deepwood Sniper actually in need of significant revision after 3.5e came out? That was pretty much the main area of focus for CW, at least in regards to repackaged material.

Except for RPGA, not Revised essentially DOES mean it was dropped.

 

[Cam Banks]

You'd think that, wouldn't you? And it may even be true for DM-generated NPC Favored Souls. But for a Favored Soul PC who happens to be the party healer, you're going to find the sorcerer-like selection of spells dismally limiting.

The favored soul probably shouldn't be the party healer. That's a better job for the cleric or the (surprise surprise) healer class. The favored soul is somewhat like the paladin in that it can provide healing spells as one of its options but shouldn't be depended upon to do so.

The one in my group is, but I'm going to let him swap out his low-level spells (like a mystic can) as he advances levels, with the assumption that an NPC cleric or PC cleric replacement might show up.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Umbran]

Sorcerers have great potential to be different from one another. In actuality, they're often homogeneous.

Lots of people say this. I wonder, though, at how true it really is. How many sorcerers have any of us really seen to know how similar or different they are?

 

[Mercule]

Please, nobody give the obligatory "that's the player's fault/blame the DM" response. Fault/blame does not affect the bottom line. The end result of the design is what matters. Domains offer some diversity because no god offers all the optimal domains. I pick Fharlanghn to get the groovy Travel and Luck domains, while the guy who picks Pelor gets Healing and Strength.

So, it's good of the desiginers to provide a boatload of domains, the choice and differenciation of which depends upon the player; but it is bad of the designers to provide a double boatload of spells, the choice and differenciation of which depends upon the player.

You're sounding a bit conflicted here. What am I missing about your position?

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

I think the difference is that domains are perceived as extra. A cleric has his normal spell slots which can be converted into healing spells, etc AND his domain spells which serve to differentiate him from other clerics.

A favored soul, OTOH, has a single list of spells that have to both serve his general purposes and have to serve to differentiate him from other favored souls.

The sorceror analogy is quite useful in this regard. NPC sorcerors vary widely in terms of their selected spells. One may have the standard magic missile/fireball/cone of cold/disintegrate blaster loadout. Another may have ray of enfeeblement, ray of exhaustion, waves of fatigue, and enervation. However, PC sorcerors can't afford to end up totally useless if they run into undead or constructs (as the latter sorceror would be). So they tend to gravitate towards a selection of spells that is applicable to a broad variety of circumstances. Of the sorcerors I've seen, I've yet to see one that failed to take fireball or magic missile. Consequently, PC sorcerors tend to be less differentiated from each other than NPC sorcerors. I would expect the same thing to be true of favored souls.

Then again, other than healing, the cleric spell list has far fewer "generally useful" direct damage etc spells than the sorceror. I would expect that effective Favored Souls would have to pick one or two narrow areas of focus and become very skilled in those specialties. One focussed on melee might take Bless, Divine Favor, Shield of Faith, Lesser Restoration, Resist Energy, Magic Vestment, Prayer, Divine Power, Freedom of Movement, and Righteous Might with a few curative and offensive spells tossed in around the edges. Another might focus on buffing and take Bless, CLW Shield of Faith, Aid, Shield Other, CMW, Magic Vestment, Magic Circle vs. evil, Freedom of Movement, Recitation, Bear's Heart, and Heal. Yet another might choose to focus on curses and take Doom, Sound Burst, Spiritual Weapon, Bestow Curse, Blindness/Deafness, Cure Critical Wounds, Recitation, Slay Living.

However, if the favored soul wants to fill the cleric's role in the party rather than taking on a specialized role, his spell selection will be remarkably predictable.

Domains are an extra that a cleric can use to customize his party role but that don't impair any of his main class abilities. The favored soul's spells known define his class abilities. Consequently there will be much less differentiation within any given role among favored souls than among clerics.

So, it's good of the desiginers to provide a boatload of domains, the choice and differenciation of which depends upon the player; but it is bad of the designers to provide a double boatload of spells, the choice and differenciation of which depends upon the player.

You're sounding a bit conflicted here. What am I missing about your position?

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

The favored soul probably shouldn't be the party healer. That's a better job for the cleric or the (surprise surprise) healer class. The favored soul is somewhat like the paladin in that it can provide healing spells as one of its options but shouldn't be depended upon to do so.

He's got enough spells, he can probably do that and take up the melee divine caster role.

One of the limiters on the FS is the two-stat dependency. I'd been thinking about shafting save DCs, and just taking spells nobody would try and save against...cures, buffs, etc.

Brad

 

[Felon]

Except for RPGA, not Revised essentially DOES mean it was dropped.

Now that's a curious remark. A Deepwood Sniper can still have the same prerequisites, still offer the same class features--what about it does WotC need to "pick up"?

Are you suggesting that even though a prestige class or feat is unaffected by any of the rules changes in 3.5e, and thus doesn't really need any revision, they have to revise it anyway just show everyone it's still "legal" to play?

If that's what you think, then suit yourself, but do realize that you basically just made that rule up arbitrarily. I've certainly never heard any official statement from WotC rendering all previous 3e material null and void, nor have they made any commitment to dedicate the Complete series or any other 3.5e products to reprinting every single feat and PrC from past products simply just to show that they haven't been "dropped" (whatever that actually means).

If I'm interpreting your meaning incorrectly, please elaborate. And if I'm not, please elaborate anyway.