Complete Warrior: Paladin feats

[Hypersmurf]

Another question... p.106 of Complete Warrior (which is a 3.5 book) stipulates that:" (Divine Feats) have as a prerequisite the ability to turn or rebuke undead. Thus, they are open to clerics, paladins of 3rd level or higher [...]"

But, Paladins can only turn at 4th level.

Am I missing something ?

The text is cut'n'pasted from Defenders of the Faith. It was correct when it was written. It's wrong now.

-Hyp.

 

[irdeggman]

I'd expect some erratta to the CW pretty soon and that is one of the things I'm sure they will 'fix'. Since I don't have my book in front of me, does the feat require expending a turning attempt to activate? Previously, most of the divine feats did. If so, then it doesn't really matter if a paladin has to be 3rd or 4th level to acquire the feat since he couldn't use it until 4th level anyway.

Also the prerequisites and pecking order for things works like this:

Race benefits
Level benefits
Class benefits

What this means is that in order to meet the prerequisite for that feat (if it is ability to turn undead) must actually be 5th level. This is because class abilities are gained last and in order to meet the prequisite the character must already have them. This is very clearly specified in relation to prestige classes but the 'pecking order' applies at all times. Which is why a character that increases his Int when leveling up, immediately gains the benefits when gaining skill points for his new class level.

 

[Trainz]

You're right. I just checked. The Paladin gains the feat BEFORE special class features. Even if he did get turn undead at 3rd, he wouldn't be able to get Divine Feats.

So there... *sigh*

I hate it when rules twart my powergaming attempts.

 

[Epametheus]

Divine Might is basically a mandatory feat for paladins.

Eh, the 4th level thing just means you'll have Cleave before you get Divine Might.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The Paladin gains the feat BEFORE special class features. Even if he did get turn undead at 3rd, he wouldn't be able to get Divine Feats.

It's been suggested by some of the designers that while class level must be picked first, the rest of the level-up can happen in fluid order, rather than rigid.

Example: let's say I level up and take a level of Cleric, with the Trickery domain. The domain power makes Hide a class skill. If I want to take ranks in Hide, do I pay class ranks or cross-class ranks?

By the rigid order, I have to assign my skill ranks before class features, so it's still a cross-class skill. By fluid order, I can note the class feature and then spend skill points at class skill costs.

If Skills come before Feats in the rigid order, I can't take a feat like Cosmopolitan to make a skill a class skill before spending my points.

If Feats come before Skills in the rigid order, I can't take a rank in Ride to qualify for the Mounted Combat feat.

It gets even weirder when you talk about Prestige Classes.

A Wizard-11 who levels to Wizard-12 assigns his class level, then his feats, then his class features. Assigning his class level gives him a caster level of 12, so he can take Forge Ring as his feat.

A Wizard-11 who levels to Wiz-11/Candle Caster-1 assigns his class level, then his feats, then his class features. Assigning his class level doesn't increase his caster level. At this point, he still casts as a Wizard-11. He needs to pick a feat other than Forge Ring. And then, as a Class Feature, he increases his spellcasting level by 1.

It doesn't actually state (in the 3E Core Rules at least) "These steps must be followed in order". The only reference is that class level must be picked first, found in the PrC section. Otherwise, it only says "When your character achieves a new level, make these changes."

-Hyp.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

I've always done everything is a very fluid order with almost no rigidity at all. I almost always pick feats last cause they happen less often than skills.

 

[Darklone]

Divine Might... yeahyeah, they "fixed" my poor paladin to avoid Divine Might smackdowns... and only made the cleric stronger. Sad sad world.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

The text is cut'n'pasted from Defenders of the Faith. It was correct when it was written. It's wrong now.

You know they did more than cut and paste the text... They slaughtered Divine Might into nothingness in the complete warrior.

 

[Hypersmurf]

You know they did more than cut and paste the text... They slaughtered Divine Might into nothingness in the complete warrior.

The feats changed, but it sounds like the description of the "Divine Feats" category didn't, which is where it said "Cleric or 3rd+ Paladin" in DotF.

-Hyp.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

The feats changed, but it sounds like the description of the "Divine Feats" category didn't, which is where it said "Cleric or 3rd+ Paladin" in DotF.

I see that now, oh well, I do believe I will pretend it never happened. With DM approval of course.

The new feat friendly divine shield is nice though...