Complete Warrior preview & speculation

[Darklone]

Hmm. Actually I wouldn't mind to see most PrClasses reworked similar to the 3.5 DMG ones.

This might make me actually use them.

 

[hong]

I'll have to second that answer for me, too. WotC alone has probably produced some 200 or more Prestige Classes (*and that's probably underestimating a great deal). Add to that other d20 Companies, and the number of times an archetype has been re-hashed is quite depressing.

Does anyone know of a list of all published PrC's on the net somewhere, by chance?

Even so, if they were ORIGINAL, I would see interest in them; however, the number of classes produced thus far is so excessive that they become very wasted space to me personally. I guess it's part of that "Jading" I was talking about in an earlier thread.

Ah, but see, complaining about too many prestige classes to use is like complaining about the Vehicles of the Week that have been posted on the GURPSnet-L mailing list for something like 6 years. They appeal to the latent gearhead side in a gamer; and most RPG designers have at least some gearhead side to them. I certainly do, and I like to see what takes other people have on these things.

And anyway, there's always the "someone might make use of them" handwave.

 

[Null Boundry]

I'll have to second that answer for me, too. WotC alone has probably produced some 200 or more Prestige Classes (*and that's probably underestimating a great deal). Add to that other d20 Companies, and the number of times an archetype has been re-hashed is quite depressing.

I always find it amusing that people complain about TSR producing too much material and how WOTC are avoiding this mistake.

Then you read things like this.

 

[Marius Delphus]

Does anyone know of a list of all published PrC's on the net somewhere, by chance?

There appears to be a fairly good list of 3.0 classes at the Netbook of Classes site:

http://www.fancc.net/nboc/downloads.html

I count approximately 1,770 prestige classes in the list (correcting for multiple appearances of the same prestige class, but not multiple prestige classes with the same name, if I read the list right).

C'mon, Eberron! C'mon, The Deep! C'mon, DawnForge! But I can't say that about 50 pages of yet more Prestige Classes.

Lemme just say "amen." Personally, I've reached my saturation point with feats, spells, and prestige classes, and I don't believe I've seen more than about a tenth of the d20 material that's out there.

At one time, I made a concerted effort just to collect all the 1E and 2E proficiencies, spells, and kits I *owned*... this task was never completed. At this point, I think it's fair to compare the amount of D&D + d20 material out there with the amount of 2E material TSR and WOTC published... at least as far as feats, spells, and prestige classes go (IMHO the functional equivalents, from a "system bloat" perspective, of proficiencies, spells, and kits).

 

[Sirius_Black]

36 Prestige Classes?!?!?!?! 36?

Well, maybe they feel there just haven't been enough Prestige Classes published yet.

 

[Taren Seeker]

Actually, I don't think 36 is that much, since I suspect that most of them will be 3.5 updates of PrC's from S&F, MotW and DotF. Perhaps even the rogue classes from S&S, depending on how far WotC is stretching the definition of warrior.

Maybe 10-12 new PrC's to highlight some new rules in the book, and to fill some holes in current WotC creations. I'm still waiting for a decent Fighter/Rogue PrC that doesn't have to use a bow or whip dagger. (one that I can use in RPGA play)

Aren't these new complete books just 3.5 versions of the splatbooks? I suspect there will be 2 more, 1 for Divine magic classes and 1 for Arcane.

 

[Staffan]

I always find it amusing that people complain about TSR producing too much material and how WOTC are avoiding this mistake.

Then you read things like this.

Well, WOTC are producing a lot less material than TSR did at their best/worst (depending on perspective). For example, ignoring novels TSR produced 80 D&D products in 1995. In 2003, the total is 14 D&D books (including the new core books and the Dragonlance setting, which I believe was written out of house), plus the Miniatures Handbook, plus 6 books for d20 Modern and Star Wars. That's 17-25% of the output in 1995 (depending on if you include non-D&D d20).

The thing is that some people perceive that WOTC are producing much of the same stuff. The 1995 stuff was spread over several campaign settings: Forgotten Realms, Mystara, Dark Sun, Planescape, Ravenloft, Birthright (something like half the entire BR line was released in 1995), Lankhmar, plus many core supplements (ironically, again including revised core books). Plus, as some people say, we're getting to a point of prestige class overload. Other than the PHB and MM, and maybe A&EG, I think every new book for D&D this year has contained prestige classes. It is getting kind of silly.

 

[AeroDm]

I will almost assuredly be purchasing Complete Warrior, but have little hopes in it. 36 prcs that I will almost assuredly not use. I don't like the generic PrCs (as opposed to very campaign specific) and like has already been said, most of them will be rehashed from other sources.

The fighting styles will seem awesome at first, but quickly be realized as free power that isn't a good idea. Quintessential Fighter did a similar thing which ended up grossly overpowering.

Many people want to see mass-combat rules, but that is the miniature niche so you'll have to buy those products for that.

I am sort of opposed to flooding the game with feats because all they do is create unforseen power-combos that then break the game and make it less fun. The simpler a system is, the more balanced it can be.

So why will I buy it? Because I have money to burn on a game I really enjoy, because I like to support the industry, because there will undoubtedly be a few ideas that are really wonderful amidst a flourish of overpowered feats, PrCs, and underthought rules.

 

[John Crichton]

Consider the 16 PrCs in the DMG took 22 pages. Thats 1.375 pages each. 36 Prcs times 1.375 is 49.5 pages of PrCs. I dont use PrCs thus nearly 1/3 of the book is a waste of time for me.

Without pictures that could be trimmed down to about 1.25 per page but the numbers still jive. It would put the count below 50. I was also going on the assumption that a few of them would be reprints. No big.

 

[Valiantheart]

I am much more in favor of adding more optional core classes instead of the endless glut of overpowered PrCs. We still need a Unfettered/Swashbuckler class, a martial/wizard class, and a few more archetypes. Less PrCs more classes.