Complete Warrior: Who's the best warrior of the bunch?
- Thread starter Triumph
- Start date
jgsugden
Legend
Triumph said:
This is a meaningless discussion. The surrounding circumstances will increase or decrease the usefulness of each class ability, so trying to compare their power without a specified environment and foe is meaningless.
The classes are designed to be balanced for their intended levels. They did a better job in this book than in the splat books. I don't think any of them is so far out of whack as to be obviously superior.
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
jgsugden said:
Definately hulking hurler.
Of course it's not so amazing all on it's own, but combine it with a strength in the 60's and you're smacking things righteously. Like thousands of d6 damage righteously.
xenoflare
First Post
hmm
hi all,
to a certain point i agree with jgsugden - circumstances change, affecting the efficiency of various classes in various configurations. what i like bout the complete warrior though is the trend towards making certain classes based on a "gimmick" - the mindspy, the master of the unseen hand, the warshaper etc. this is as close to martial art evolution in a magical world as i can think of - the arts of war and the realms of fantasy do not exist in a vacuum. it allows for the exploitation of certain abilities by various sorts of beings with various powers to maximize their combat abilities in very colourful and flavoursome ways.
then again, i may be biased because i like weird character builds.
anyway, just for posterity's sake, here's an off-the-cuff SUPERSTRENGTH character build using Complete Warrior stuff... if you want a somewhat shady but still legit build, you could try the following mods on the Frenzied Berserker - ask your DM to approve the Giant race from Arcana Unearthed (or if you're playing AU already, good for you), and take the Chi-Jalud Wardance feat that transfers Cha mods to Str and Wis mods to Cons. Take a couple of levels in barbarian for the rage ability.
take 10 levels of psychic warrior to qualify for Polymorph, and get the feat Trigger Power - Animal Affinity (so you get a chance to buff with Animal Affinity for free with a successful strength check). Now we get to the complete warrior bit. Take 2 levels of Warshaper, and get your Berserker level for the Frenzy..
You polymorph yourself into a high base-strength form (like Firbolg, if you want - Str 36 or something i think) and add +4 to your Str and Cons from Warshaper, buff yourself to the gills in all your stats (with a high probability of paying zero power points for some of them), transfer your buffed Cha and Wis Mods to your already buffed Str and Cons mods with the Wardance, enter a rage, then enter a frenzy. The immunity to stuns and crits from Warshaper should help prevent your superman from dying from a wellplaced crit - but you're still susceptible to a Dispel or other anti-buffs.
i think we should easily hit Str 70 with this, erm, happy mix. Your DM may evict you from the game afterwards and ban the Complete Warrior though (it's actually Chi-Jalud's fault, anyhow
)
yours,
shao
hi all,
to a certain point i agree with jgsugden - circumstances change, affecting the efficiency of various classes in various configurations. what i like bout the complete warrior though is the trend towards making certain classes based on a "gimmick" - the mindspy, the master of the unseen hand, the warshaper etc. this is as close to martial art evolution in a magical world as i can think of - the arts of war and the realms of fantasy do not exist in a vacuum. it allows for the exploitation of certain abilities by various sorts of beings with various powers to maximize their combat abilities in very colourful and flavoursome ways.
then again, i may be biased because i like weird character builds.
anyway, just for posterity's sake, here's an off-the-cuff SUPERSTRENGTH character build using Complete Warrior stuff... if you want a somewhat shady but still legit build, you could try the following mods on the Frenzied Berserker - ask your DM to approve the Giant race from Arcana Unearthed (or if you're playing AU already, good for you), and take the Chi-Jalud Wardance feat that transfers Cha mods to Str and Wis mods to Cons. Take a couple of levels in barbarian for the rage ability.
take 10 levels of psychic warrior to qualify for Polymorph, and get the feat Trigger Power - Animal Affinity (so you get a chance to buff with Animal Affinity for free with a successful strength check). Now we get to the complete warrior bit. Take 2 levels of Warshaper, and get your Berserker level for the Frenzy..
You polymorph yourself into a high base-strength form (like Firbolg, if you want - Str 36 or something i think) and add +4 to your Str and Cons from Warshaper, buff yourself to the gills in all your stats (with a high probability of paying zero power points for some of them), transfer your buffed Cha and Wis Mods to your already buffed Str and Cons mods with the Wardance, enter a rage, then enter a frenzy. The immunity to stuns and crits from Warshaper should help prevent your superman from dying from a wellplaced crit - but you're still susceptible to a Dispel or other anti-buffs.
i think we should easily hit Str 70 with this, erm, happy mix. Your DM may evict you from the game afterwards and ban the Complete Warrior though (it's actually Chi-Jalud's fault, anyhow
)yours,
shao
xenoflare
First Post
mmm, thanks, Saeviomagy! i'll go think of ways to hurl a M1 Abrams tank now!
HULK SMASH!
but yeah. the abuse all comes out when you mix and match wantonly. in itself, Complete Warrior seems a-o-k.
(and the tactical feats are cute. the weapon feats all seem a bit too one-track for the 2-weapon fighting though...)
yours,
shao
HULK SMASH!
but yeah. the abuse all comes out when you mix and match wantonly. in itself, Complete Warrior seems a-o-k.
(and the tactical feats are cute. the weapon feats all seem a bit too one-track for the 2-weapon fighting though...)
yours,
shao
The environment is Greyhawk. The foe is "any given denizen of Greyhawk." Let me know if you need further hand holding, I'll be here all night.jgsugden said:
Oh so you can answer the question after all. Here, take a cookie and run along now. Or you can stay if you can tell me one single Complete Warrior class that would deal more damage to ANY foe in melee range than a Frenzied Berserker.jgsugden said:
The Gnome Giant Slayer's piddly +8 vs. giants is nothing compared to an FB dishing out +40 on a PA, or let's say a +12 if he wanted to sacrifice a measley +3 off his Attack Role (even though he gains much more than that through the STR bonus of a combined Rage and Frenzy).
The book is about classes centered around killing stuff. The Frenzied Berserker kills stuff the best, unless someone can prove otherwise.
xenoflare
First Post
Triumph said:Hmmm, possibly, mate, possibly. I wonder if you can combine Ranged Power Attack with Meteor Strike? Of course an FB with Deathless Frenzy would still charge up and hack the Hurler to death before collapsing at -500 hp when his Frenzy expires.
but technically, the charging frenzied berserker with -500 HP has so little flesh left on his "corpse" that he'll be very aerodynamic.
hence, he'll become a missile weapon.
which the hulking hurler can then swat away.
ok, that doesn't make sense. but hmm, a Master of the Unseen Hand could swat the Berserker away until the Frenzy ran out.
argh. let's not let this degenerate into "my PrC is more L337xor than your Prc" haha.. no need to get all violent and bloodthirsty, even if it's about the complete warrior.
yours,
shao
Ha ha ha, wasn't there an issue in Secret Wars where one of the villains knocked out the charging Hulk by telekinetically bombarding him with giant rocks?xenoflare said:
The Master of the Unseen Hand might have the upper hand *snicker* against a Frenzied Berserker, but the coveted title of "Best Killer of Stuff" still goes to the FB. For now....xenoflare said:
James McMurray
First Post
The FB is an inherently paradoxical class.
You take 2 points of nonlethal damage per round of frenzying. If you take subdual damage equal to your current hit points, you pass out. So the moment the FB drops below 0 hit points his nonlethal damage will knock him unconcious.
You take 2 points of nonlethal damage per round of frenzying. If you take subdual damage equal to your current hit points, you pass out. So the moment the FB drops below 0 hit points his nonlethal damage will knock him unconcious.
