Complicated components still take only 1 standard action?

[Moon-Lancer]

I also have a question. Some spells seem to have free material components (via spell pouch), but the flavor seems to suggest their are special circumstances to gain this free material components. Is this were eschew materials comes into handy. Does anyone actually make the player role play getting these strange free components?

I will try to post examples later in the day.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I disagree with your stance that it is flavor. It's in the SRD so it's not fluff text.

Just being in the SRD does not mean it's not fluff text. d20 has fluff, too. One example would be all the spell names.

I even found one solid example that disproves your stance that it is flavor. The block says 1 round casting and the full description states 10 minutes to scribe the circle (at least for the second version).

The 10 minutes is for the special diagram. It's not for any specific version, but as an additional rule for using one of the special versions of magic circle. No such time is given for tracing the 3ft-diameter circle with the actual material components.

There you have it, the rules do support my nerf!

No, they don't. What's so "elaborate" about powered silver? Don't you think a better example of elaborate would be the non-druidical focuses for scrying?

So, anyway, let's get more specific. What kind of an action do you require for spreading the 3ft-diameter of powdered silver? How about for placing 3 onyx gems, or 4, or 5?

 

[werk]

Some spells seem to have free material components (via spell pouch), but the flavor seems to suggest their are special circumstances to gain this free material components. This is were eschew materials comes in handy. Does anyone actually make the player role play getting these strange free components?

We usually gloss over it, but any time we get to a city that would sell components (1-5 gp) or if we penetrate a wizard's lab, the casters always 'load up' on components. As a DM, I'll place components around to see if the casters pick up on it and take some. Like I might put a sheet of cured leather on a shelf or an exposed sulfer deposit in the underground wall or describe the smithy's workshop as having a thick coat of powdered iron. Casters rarely, rarely realize that these are components thinking that they are just flavor text.

 

[TheGogmagog]

I also have a question. Some spells seem to have free material components (via spell pouch), but the flavor seems to suggest their are special circumstances to gain this free material components. Is this were eschew materials comes into handy. Does anyone actually make the player role play getting these strange free components?

I will try to post examples later in the day.

I noticed that also recently. I think it was a high level cleric spell that required some mercury, but had no gp value for the mercury. I would think that would be kind of rare. Displacement also required (not sure if it still does) a piece of displacer hide. I would think that would be hard to come by in certain settings, especially one where the DM says they don't exist.

 

[TheGogmagog]

Just being in the SRD does not mean it's not fluff text. d20 has fluff, too. One example would be all the spell names.

The 10 minutes is for the special diagram. It's not for any specific version, but as an additional rule for using one of the special versions of magic circle. No such time is given for tracing the 3ft-diameter circle with the actual material components.

No, they don't. What's so "elaborate" about powered silver? Don't you think a better example of elaborate would be the non-druidical focuses for scrying?

So, anyway, let's get more specific. What kind of an action do you require for spreading the 3ft-diameter of powdered silver? How about for placing 3 onyx gems, or 4, or 5?

Saying that the special diagram is only for the special version (especially right after you state it's not for any specific version) is a "where you put the comma" debate that I will refuse to go into. I rule that it's for both versions, A fair SRD interpretation that eliminates any ambiguity of how long it takes to cast either version. If you chose an SRD interpretation that creates more problems, well that's your choice.
I agree there is nothing elaborate about powdered silver. Powdered silver in an intricate diagram however, may take some time. If only there were some text about how long it takes to draw a diagram.... oh yea.

Drawing the diagram by hand takes 10 minutes and requires a DC 20 Spellcraft check. You do not know the result of this check. If the check fails, the diagram is ineffective. You can take 10 when drawing the diagram if you are under no particular time pressure to complete the task. This task also takes 10 full minutes. If time is no factor at all, and you devote 3 hours and 20 minutes to the task, you can take 20.

Seems pretty unambiguous.

Placing the onyx gems, move (if nessesary)+ standard, provokes attack of opportunity. I would probably bend the rules, allowing two per round if no movement is required (like storing item or retrieving a stored item) but since they arn't containers on your body, that would clearly be a house rule and NOT RAW.

Same for the bowl of water for divination, move action to retrieve the bowl, move action to retrieve the waterskin, move action to pour the water into the bowl. So two move actions first round, move action and standard to cast the spell (or begin casting if it has a longer casting time).

 

[Jarrod]

My response to components taking extra time would be "Okay. 1st level feat: eschew material components. Next!".

Just so you realize that you're penalizing all casters 1 feat, not making the flavor better.

 

[werk]

My response to components taking extra time would be "Okay. 1st level feat: eschew material components. Next!".

Just so you realize that you're penalizing all casters 1 feat, not making the flavor better.

And you, of course, realize that eschew materials says "If the spell requires a material component that costs more than 1 gp, you must have the material component at hand to cast the spell, just as normal."

Now, care to answer again? Especially with regard to animate dead, say 4 1HD corpses, each 5' apart.

Thanks,

 

[Infiniti2000]

Saying that the special diagram is only for the special version (especially right after you state it's not for any specific version) is a "where you put the comma" debate that I will refuse to go into.

Well, I guess if you just want to refuse to discuss the issue and refuse to listen to a counterargument about how you're wrong, we're done. The rest of your response is therefore moot.

 

[Jarrod]

And you, of course, realize that eschew materials says "If the spell requires a material component that costs more than 1 gp, you must have the material component at hand to cast the spell, just as normal."

Now, care to answer again? Especially with regard to animate dead, say 4 1HD corpses, each 5' apart.

Thanks,

Sure.

You're penalizing the casters with taking a feat _all_ the time, and penalizing them more for some spells.

Happy?

 

[werk]

Sure.

You're penalizing the casters with taking a feat _all_ the time, and penalizing them more for some spells.

Happy?

Everyone gets their .02. You were just saying that casters should waste a feat for something that only partially resolves the issue. I call that avoiding the issue.

So, IYC, how does a 16th level caster animate 32 1HD Human Warriors in one standard action? Can they only animate one corpse? Do they draw AoO if they animate all of them?

I'm just asking because I don't know how I should run it.