Composition of an Elite City Guard Unit?

[Vuron]

OK IMC elite guard units would be pretty much composed as such.

1 Leader Human Fighter/Aristocrat/Warrior 2/2/2 on Warhorse armed with melee weapon (longsword) + hand crossbow or pistol

1 Aide Human Fighter/Rogue/Warrior 1/2/2 on warhorse armed with light crossbow + melee weapon

1 "Healer" Human Expert/Warrior 2/2 armed with melee weapon, Light Crossbow and several potions of healing

9 Guards Human Fighter/Warrior 2/2 armed Light Crossbows, melee weapon and padded club

A small town might have 4-5 of these units when on extended patrol they ride mounted with spears and combine into larger units perhaps with supplemental guard units.

Supplemental Guard Units

Shadows- Human Rogue/Warrior 2/2 armed with padded clubs, daggers with knockout poison etc

Guard Mage- Human Sorceror/Expert 3/1 armed with melee weapon and light crossbow and a wand of web

Investigators- Human Rogue/Expert/Warrior 2/2/2 armed with melee weapon geared towards spot, listen, search etc

The guard makes use of alchemical devices such as tanglefoot bags and thundertwigs and high level guard leaders often have personal magic items etc.

 

[hong]

What does this mean? Well, it means that characters, *in-game* aren't really aware of "what level they are". They are aware of relative power levels, but only in a general sense.

I'll have to remember this next time I bump into that 17th level wizard running a stall in the market in Baldur's Gate.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

This topic has been a lot more successful than I would have imagined. There are a lot of fantastic ideas here. I hope this thread lasts for a while. Very good reading so far.

 

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Excellent Colonel! It is a very interesting conversation!

To expand a bit on some of my earlier remarks, think about it: Should *every* 20th lvl Fighter be a general leading armies? Likewise, not every 20th lvl Cleric will be the Lord High Priest, either. And so on. I suppose I don't really see the hard and fast mechanical expression of *LEVEL* necessarily translating into some expected and predictable *in game* outcome, you know? I think the whole attitude or approach to what levels mean *in game* should be dispensed with in large part. Doing so provides the DM and players alike, with more flexibility in how their characters not only live their lives, but also position themselves within the context of the campaign.

I can envision, as Hong noted, 17th level Wizards working a fruit stand at the market in Bluffside, or wherever. Why not? Just because he is a very skilled wizard doesn't presuppose that he must then be political, materialistic, or involved in any kind of public way with the larger society. Maybe he likes the quiet life selling fresh fruit in the market, spending leisurely hours socialising with his friends and neighbors over coffee. Meanwhile at his modest home at the end of the street, next to the pastry shop, he keeps a well-stocked library, some favorite items from his adventuring days, and a elegant, but modestly appointed house. perhaps he keeps a great some of gold in a magical chest for emergencies. Perhaps he quietly sends sums of gold to each of his children, and grandchildren every year. Meanwhile, he sits in the fine chair before his fruit stand, smoking a fine pipe.

As a 17th lvl Wizard, too. I think it is quite appropriate. I think such realistic *folding* of such characters into your broader community is more realistic, believable, and ultimately, more interesting.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[Ace]

IMC level 1 in any class is a beginer, level 2 is mature, level 3 is experienced and so on.

An Elite guard unit, I would say 30 men.

Three units of 8 each from 4th to 6th level mainly fighters but with some rogue levels maybe 2/4 rog/ftr.

each would have chainshirt (mw), club , shortsword and buckler(mw).

Each would also have a crossbow but it would not normally be carried

Each unit would have a Seargeant 2-3 levels higher typically ftr4/rog3/guard officer 1-2 (make up a cool PRC)

The unit seargeant would report to a leutenant who would be a couple of levels higher than the seargeant. Those levels would either be Guard officer or maybe Aristocrat or Noble.

Each Unit would be supported by a special services detachement with 2 wizards (5th level or more) 2 rangers, urban varient (with Watch Detective PRC) and 2 priests (level 7 or so).

Magic items would not normally be issued but would be available in amounts appropriate the campaign. If there is plentiful magic then magic weapons and or armor would be issued instead of MW.

Likely magic items include +x weapons and armor, healing potions and wands of hold person, cure light, light and other spells

Also there will almost certainly be communication magic so if Emerikol the Chaotic comes riding through the unit can call for serious back up.

As an addendum to my comments the crucial difference between ordinary and elite is often the character class and to a lesser extent level.

For example a regular town guard might be a third level warrior or a third level expert instead of a fighter or a rogue.

A ordinary "police department" usually called a Contstables Office will be a mix of 2-6 level warriors, experts and maybe the occasional adept thrown in the mix.

Detectives tend to be Elite types although some may be Expert5/ Detective PRC+x
and officers may have Warrior or Expert + Officer and Aristocrat levels.

The difference between an elite unit and say a regular unit is like the difference between say a S.W.A.T. officer and a beat cop.

Both my have 20 years on the force but the S.W.A.T. guy has a lot more training. This is represented by making one a warrior and the other a fighter and modifing it a bit.

The Beat cop (20 year vet) would be maybe expert3/warrior3/police veteran1 PRC whereas the elite guy might be a level higher (he sees more action) and be a rogue3/fighter4/Police veteran1 prc

The "science support" role in a modern office are of course handled by Wizards who do double duty as heavy artillery when needed

Say a forensics unit might be an Adept capable of casting speak with dead ( I added it to the list so don't ask) If things get rough hey there is always lightning bolt

More elite units will have Wizards possibly with an expert level or two instead. They will also have speak with dead (I added that to the Sor/Wiz list too).

Since Ihave both science and magic a typical homicide investigation begins with Speak With Dead (this isn't an evil spell BTW) and follows up with an investigation. Forensic lore is faily advanced with the succinct problem that the tools are limited to early 19th century with the addition magic.

Many small cities and villages of course don't have police and will just have a few "Custos" to keep order. These guys are 2-4th warrior at best.
If things got out of hand local adventurers or spell casters would help out.

 

[Black Omega]

Actually, the addition of magic in a situation like this makes me wonder something. If someone is killed and the body is left in such a way that it is easily raised, is it still murder?

I'm mostly thinking of stuff from the Vlad Taltos novels where raising the dead was, like DnD, fairly easy and availible and so often times an assassination wasn't a serious attempt to kill someone but rather just sending the victim a message.

 

[Nail]

It is a very interesting conversation!

Agreed. Only on this point of Shark's comments, at least. :^)

To expand a bit on some of my earlier remarks, think about it: Should *every* 20th lvl Fighter be a general leading armies?

'Course, not. That's not my point. (You may not have been responding to my post, o' course. I accept that.) My point is that "every general leading armies should be 20th level", or some such dreck. Th' end comment in me post was somthin' like, "All leaders should be high level", not "All high level characters should be leaders." ...a substantial difference.

I suppose I don't really see the hard and fast mechanical expression of *LEVEL* necessarily translating into some expected and predictable *in game* outcome, you know?

Sure you do...look at the elite guard unit you posted. I don't see too many "in game" versus "level" disconnects in that unit, do you? Does anyone?

Let's relate this to th' question that started th' thread. An elite group o' guards has ta be "elite":

• 
  In RL, (or some reality-based RPG), that means
  special training and (hopefully) some
  experience. Actual outcome of all of the
  special training, etc => subjective.
  
  In D&D, that means high level. Period. If yer
  not high level, you will get the wrong
  end o' th' boot leather. Nothin' subjective
  about that.

In D&D, levels (and th' related gear) equals power. Power leads.

In RL, yer on th' wrong side of a gun barrel, yer done. In D&D, nothing could be further from th' truth -- it all comes down to what level you are, what level yer opponent is, magic items, etc.

So any Elite city guard would have ta be high level ta do their job. If they're not, they're toast (or Dominated, or Disintigrated, or Polymorphed, or.......).

At that's th' point. We all know this, we all do this,.....but do we all include this as something people know about? Not the game mechanics, but the outcome? Power leads.

I can envision, as Hong noted, 17th level Wizards working a fruit stand at the market in Bluffside, or wherever. Why not? Just because he is a very skilled wizard doesn't presuppose that he must then be political, materialistic, or involved in any kind of public way with the larger society.

A 17th level wizard in a fruit market, eh? Okay...I'll try ta take that seriously.....it is from Hong, after all.

If that were th' case, I'd hope th' players would start asking the obvious questions: Why? How? What? Sure, he might be there selling bananas. But it's clear that's not his day job. Especially when he pulls out that Meteor Swarm. Or when he starts to talk about demons on a first-name basis......

Not only that, but ta be 17th level, he had ta crack some heads. Some o' those heads might still be attached to their shoulders.....Getting levels means "defeating" others, in D&D. This has consequences.

......and in the end, Power leads.

(...better make those elite guard units tough.......er I'll have 'em fer breakfast.)

-Nail

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I wanted to bump this in case anyone else had some thoughts on the subject.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I wanted to bump this up because it's such a good discussion that I hated to see it end so quickly.

 

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Hmmm...indeed. It is true that all powerful leaders should be high level, but I suppose I was attempting to make the connection that many high-level characters don't necessarily have to be *leaders* One could certainly argue that prima facie having high levels presupposes *leadership ability* but I suppose that I make some distinctions between the following effecting characters:

(1) Personality:

Many personality types, despite the person having a broad range of skill and distinguished abilities, are not suited for leadership. In addition, the person may often not desire such a leadership role, and its attendant responsibility. To use an example from real life, I can think of many Marines who are long-serving Sergeants, Staff-Sergeants, and Gunnery-Sergeants, that when it comes to being an all-around warrior, are often superior in those abilities to many of the Majors and higher field-grade ranks. Those Marines, in D&D terms, could be seen as 15th-20th level Fighters, or Rangers, for example. The higher-grade officers might also qualify to be 15th-20th level, in a variety of classes. Thus, it can be seen that there is a wide difference in rank, and authority, but not necessarily in personal ability.

(2) Political Authority/Power:

This is related to point one, above. There are also various positions in government, the military, business, and the Church, that feature different leaders of various ability. The political power or authority doesn't necessarily require outstanding real abilities and skill. Oftentimes, such skills and abilities may shift the odds in favor of one's star rising, but there are plenty of examples of people throughout history that while in awesome positions of power and authority, when the rubber met the road, they just didn't measure up.

(3) Actual Occupational Choices:

There are many people of vast skills and ability who, whether from previous career training, or extensive personal training and experiences, have none the less chosen to pursue some other form of occupation or status that is not representative or even relevant to their deeper levels of skill and abilities. To use just a few examples, there are many *Security Officers* that, while in relatively positions of low pay, are in fact highly trained former or reserve police-officers or military personel. There can also be found throughout the business world, various struggling entrepenuers who were quite successful in a previous line of work. If you encountered them at the business seminar though, or chatting at some regional office for training, you wouldn't know that they have degrees in Philoosphy, or Law, or have some very different abilities from what their present status would suggest. In Sociology, this phenomenon is called Role, and Master Status. One's *Master Status* represents one's real abilities and skills, and yet that can be very different from one's current *Role* In a similar way, there are many people that are very successful in one kind of career, and they either retire, or choose to change careers. Sometimes, this can be at relatively young ages. Say, someone lives and works as a Ranger from the time they are 15 until they are 35. That's 20 years. They could well be a master of survival and woodcraft, and yet, move to the city and begin serving in the local watch as an ordinary-looking police-officer, walking the night-watch on the foggy waterfront.

These realities--quite real in the real world, can and should, be at work in our fantasy worlds.

Colonel, great thread by the way!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK