D&D 5E Comprehend Languages Saves Lives

[iserith]

I'm running a classic dungeon crawl for two separate groups in separate games right now. It's fun to see how each group overcomes the same challenges. They're all 3rd level.

The first group TPKed on Thursday night. In the upper dungeon, they encountered a kobold guard post similar to one they had encountered in a previous session which proved to be a bit difficult for them given their current resources at the time. Refreshed after a long rest and having some sense of how the kobold guards might react to their attack, they struck again. Due in part to the clever tactics the players employed, this time the kobolds started to fall back, disengaging, dashing, moving, led by kobold dragonshields who were barking orders in Draconic to other kobolds who ran off to places unknown.

The PCs pursued, pushing deeper and deeper into kobold territory. What they didn't know was the kobolds that ran off were rallying another such guard post who began to move around the rear of the PCs to prepare a pincer attack. By the time the PCs realized what was going on, they were in a narrow corridor and surrounded on both sides. Shortly thereafter, they were massacred.

The Friday night group hadn't delved into the upper dungeon in the previous session, exploring only the surface ruins so far. At some point while the rest of the party was looking for secret doors, looting, and whatnot, the wizard decides to cast comprehend languages as a ritual. I'm not sure if he had a plan or was just doing it because he had 10 minutes to spare while the others went about their business. But when they went into the upper dungeon and encountered the kobold guard post, the wizard was able to understand what the dragonshields were saying about signaling the other guard post to begin the pincer maneuver.

Knowing that their position was now extremely precarious, these PCs broke away from the engagement and retreated, avoiding the pincer attack altogether. They left the ruins and waited for a bit before returning to tackle the upper dungeon from another direction. Without comprehend languages, they might well have met the same fate as the Thursday night group!

Have you seen the humble comprehend languages spell turn out to be very useful or lifesaving in your games?

 

[Mad_Jack]

Not recently.
But, I've always played CL as just being a universal translator sort of thing that let you both speak and read any type of language that you were exposed to.
So I used to have one player a long time ago who'd sometimes use it to bluff opponents by shouting fake commands to the rest of the party in the opponents' language.

 

[Lanefan]

I'm running a classic dungeon crawl for two separate groups in separate games right now. It's fun to see how each group overcomes the same challenges. They're all 3rd level.

The first group TPKed on Thursday night. In the upper dungeon, they encountered a kobold guard post similar to one they had encountered in a previous session which proved to be a bit difficult for them given their current resources at the time. Refreshed after a long rest and having some sense of how the kobold guards might react to their attack, they struck again. Due in part to the clever tactics the players employed, this time the kobolds started to fall back, disengaging, dashing, moving, led by kobold dragonshields who were barking orders in Draconic to other kobolds who ran off to places unknown.

The PCs pursued, pushing deeper and deeper into kobold territory. What they didn't know was the kobolds that ran off were rallying another such guard post who began to move around the rear of the PCs to prepare a pincer attack. By the time the PCs realized what was going on, they were in a narrow corridor and surrounded on both sides. Shortly thereafter, they were massacred.

The Friday night group hadn't delved into the upper dungeon in the previous session, exploring only the surface ruins so far. At some point while the rest of the party was looking for secret doors, looting, and whatnot, the wizard decides to cast comprehend languages as a ritual. I'm not sure if he had a plan or was just doing it because he had 10 minutes to spare while the others went about their business. But when they went into the upper dungeon and encountered the kobold guard post, the wizard was able to understand what the dragonshields were saying about signaling the other guard post to begin the pincer maneuver.

Knowing that their position was now extremely precarious, these PCs broke away from the engagement and retreated, avoiding the pincer attack altogether. They left the ruins and waited for a bit before returning to tackle the upper dungeon from another direction. Without comprehend languages, they might well have met the same fate as the Thursday night group!

Have you seen the humble comprehend languages spell turn out to be very useful or lifesaving in your games?

Useful, yes; though as the version I'm used to has a single target (a creature or object) and a range of "touch" the scenario you describe here could never happen.

It seems from your write-up that the "humble" CL in 5e has somehow become better than Tongues was in 1e: even as a 3rd or 4th level spell (depending on caster) Tongues only had a range of 10 feet.

Most of the time in my game CL is used either for deciphering writing they can't otherwise read or for talking to a captive or prisoner or rescuee.

 

[iserith]

Useful, yes; though as the version I'm used to has a single target (a creature or object) and a range of "touch" the scenario you describe here could never happen.

It seems from your write-up that the "humble" CL in 5e has somehow become better than Tongues was in 1e: even as a 3rd or 4th level spell (depending on caster) Tongues only had a range of 10 feet.

Most of the time in my game CL is used either for deciphering writing they can't otherwise read or for talking to a captive or prisoner or rescuee.

In D&D 5e, comprehend languages lets you understand any language you hear or see, but you cannot speak it. Tongues allows you to understand any spoken language and for creatures that speak at least one language to understand you. Each spell lasts for 1 hour. Comprehend languages can be cast as a ritual; tongues can't be cast as a ritual and is a 3rd-level spell.

 

[Lanefan]

In D&D 5e, comprehend languages lets you understand any language you hear or see, but you cannot speak it. Tongues allows you to understand any spoken language and for creatures that speak at least one language to understand you. Each spell lasts for 1 hour. Comprehend languages can be cast as a ritual; tongues can't be cast as a ritual and is a 3rd-level spell.

So, for two spell levels you get the ability with Tongues to talk back but not read anything; and you can cast CL for free. Yeah, I'd say CL has become just a bit overpowered for a 1st-level spell.

Given that Tongues is 3rd-level I'd probably make this version of CL 4th level, give it the talk-back function, and drop Tongues as a spell.

 

[iserith]

So, for two spell levels you get the ability with Tongues to talk back but not read anything; and you can cast CL for free. Yeah, I'd say CL has become just a bit overpowered for a 1st-level spell.

Given that Tongues is 3rd-level I'd probably make this version of CL 4th level, give it the talk-back function, and drop Tongues as a spell.

Overpowered relative to what? A version of the game irrelevant to the current version?

 

[Cruentus]

I wish things like Comprehend Languages and similar "non-combat" spells were used more in our 5e games. Most often in 5e, everyone has so many languages available to them via race, etc., that they're often saying "well, I'll just take language x for the heck of it". And in a party of 4 or 5, every major language is usually covered. That level of worldbuilding and interaction I've found to be locally lacking.

Related, but I'm running my son through Castle Caldwell using OSE, and he only knows his language and is literate in it. He came upon some kobolds, but didn't act aggressively, showed his hands, and tried to communicate with them. I rolled their reaction and they were neutral toward him. He then gave them a wineskin as he edged past them. No actual verbal communication, but attempts as non-verbal communication, not murder-hoboing, and offering food and such to creatures he encounters has been working well for him.

In 5e, I've only seen those non-combat spells used as rituals where they don't use a resource, or when there is literally nothing else for the wizard to be doing.

 

[iserith]

I wish things like Comprehend Languages and similar "non-combat" spells were used more in our 5e games. Most often in 5e, everyone has so many languages available to them via race, etc., that they're often saying "well, I'll just take language x for the heck of it". And in a party of 4 or 5, every major language is usually covered. That level of worldbuilding and interaction I've found to be locally lacking.

One easy fix is to limit characters to standard languages only (PHB p. 123) unless they pick up new languages via a feat or through downtime training. Then strike Common off all monster stat blocks except for certain ones (like the more learned or worldly among those particular monsters or perhaps leaders). That immediately makes languages more important but also harder to obtain, which has the further side effect of increasing the value of comprehend languages and tongues.

 

[Lanefan]

Overpowered relative to what? A version of the game irrelevant to the current version?

Overpowered relative to Tongues, the same-family 3rd-level spell that is arguably less useful in most situations. (also OP relative to what IMO a 1st-level character should be able to do in general, but that's a whole other discussion)

 

[Lanefan]

I wish things like Comprehend Languages and similar "non-combat" spells were used more in our 5e games. Most often in 5e, everyone has so many languages available to them via race, etc., that they're often saying "well, I'll just take language x for the heck of it". And in a party of 4 or 5, every major language is usually covered. That level of worldbuilding and interaction I've found to be locally lacking.

On average, how many languages do each of your PCs have available?

And do you rule that the first one has to be the character's native tongue, i.e. the one spoken in its family?

I ask because in my game characters have on average maybe 3-5 languages, and even then there's situations where some combinations of characters in the party can't speak to each other without a translator.

Another question: how many different languages and dialects does your setting have? If there's a few hundred, even if a party can put together 20 languages between them that still leaves an awful lot they can't understand...

Related, but I'm running my son through Castle Caldwell using OSE, and he only knows his language and is literate in it. He came upon some kobolds, but didn't act aggressively, showed his hands, and tried to communicate with them. I rolled their reaction and they were neutral toward him. He then gave them a wineskin as he edged past them. No actual verbal communication, but attempts as non-verbal communication, not murder-hoboing, and offering food and such to creatures he encounters has been working well for him.

Very cool. Well played to him!