CONAN Is Finally Here!

After appearing three years running in the 10 Most Anticipated RPGs of the Year list, it seems that Conan's streak has come to and end - because Conan: Adventures in an Age Undreamed Of has been released! You can get it right now from Modiphius' web store, and will be able to get it elsewhere from tomorrow. PDF only, for the moment. You can also grab a book of six adventures, Jewelled Thrones of the Earth. Conan: Adventures in an Age Undreamed of is based on Modiphius' own 2d20 system (which also powers their upcoming Star Trek Adventures game). The book is now available for review in the reviews area.

After appearing three years running in the 10 Most Anticipated RPGs of the Year list, it seems that Conan's streak has come to and end - because Conan: Adventures in an Age Undreamed Of has been released! You can get it right now from Modiphius' web store, and will be able to get it elsewhere from tomorrow. PDF only, for the moment. You can also grab a book of six adventures, Jewelled Thrones of the Earth. Conan: Adventures in an Age Undreamed of is based on Modiphius' own 2d20 system (which also powers their upcoming Star Trek Adventures game). The book is now available for review in the reviews area.

5_conan.jpeg


JTotE-Cover-Mock-Up.jpeg

SaveSave
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Water Bob

Adventurer
Question - why do you think this system is a problem? Player abuse? GM abuse?

Main reason (there are other reasons): It's a bad fit for the Hyborian Age. I've stated it above.

This is a Ying for Yang System. The mechanic was designed to implement the effect of Dark Symmetry in the MC game, and it does that brilliantly.

But, there is no Dark Symmetry in Conan's universe. There's nothing like it.

If Conan is heroic in one instance (pays DOOM to get extra dice), that has no correlation with a bigger badder foe or bigger obstacle later (when the GM uses DOOM against Conan). The relationship exists in the game that the 2d20 was designed for--in MC. IT does not exist in the game it has been shoehorned into, Conan (or Star Trek, for that matter).




Same point, in other words: If the players don't ever generate DOOM (which I think is impossible, given the way the game and adventures are designed), then the obstacles ahead are set at one level (the DOOM that the GM is given at the start of the scenario).

If the players generate DOOM, then the GM will use those extra points to increase the difficulty lying ahead of the players when he spends those extra points.

This relationship of character-gets-bonus-now-and-the-party-pays-for-that-bonus-later is not a concept that should be central to a Conan game--especially a game that claims to be based solely on Howards' writings. The concept is alien to the atmosphere Howard created for the Hyborian Age.

It might be OK for, say, Moorcocks Eternal Champion universe, where the influence of Law and Chaos reign. But, it's not appropriate for Conan's world.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Water Bob

Adventurer
I genuinely feel sorry for Mophidius - I've seen threads where they get roundly attacked for their use of the mechanic and the system works really well.

They are trying hard to put out a quality game. They are doing everything "right", in my opinion, except that they made one really bad decision that is killing them.

They decided to go with the 2d20 mechanic instead of something more traditional.

Sure, there are tons of people who like the mechanic and the game. I bet the game is selling well.

But, my gut tells me (given all the people out there, like me, who dislike the mechanic--and there are several, from what I've seen) that they're not maximizing their niche. You'll never make everyone happy, but I feel as if they are getting 75% of their potential market rather than 90% because of the choice they made going with 2d20.

Had they gone with something--a new system, or an old established system--that was more traditional in nature, I'd be happy as clam at the bottom of the ocean and yelling at the top of my lungs, "Modiphius is awesome!"

Instead, I am disappointed, along with a sizable portion (but not a majority) of their market.

2d20 is a huge mistake.
 

aramis erak

Legend
Sorry there is no such thing as "illogical" taste preferences.

Yes there are - ones which are counter to exhibited preferences of the individual stating them.

Examples:
  • Someone who hates the mechanics of Robotech while liking the mechanics of Rifts (THey're the same rules, mostly word for word).
  • someone who hates the rules of Twilight 2000 2.2 but loves the rules of Dark Conspiracy (again, same rules)
  • Someone who hates Fate System for its fate points rules, but loves Cortex Plus for its Plot Point Rules (which are substantially the same)

Illogical taste preferences aren't per se wrong, but they still are illogical.
 

Skywalker

Adventurer
Post away! I'll read it.

What-cha-got?

I'll pass. It's seems obvious that no one here is genuinely interested in going past the discussion of the Doom Pool despite what they say, favouring instead repeating their irreconcilable positions. I'll go enjoy the weekend instead :)
 

aramis erak

Legend
I'll pass. It's seems obvious that no one here is genuinely interested in going past the discussion of the Doom Pool despite what they say, favouring instead repeating their irreconcilable positions. I'll go enjoy the weekend instead :)

I've been running Star Trek Adventures - the metagame discussions in play of the threat pool are right on par with the Force Point/Character Point spend discussions my players have had in WEG SW 2E, and much less animated &/or intense than the discussions of Destiny spends in FFG SW.

The Doom/Threat pool is firmly integrated into the mechanics, and extracting it makes the engine somewhat Meh. There's good reason it's a major discussion point about the game: It's a major discussion point OOC in play...

That said, STA is rather cinematic, and due to the high similarity, I'd expect Conan to be similar. Noting the differences (4 wounds vs 1 wound before being out of action), Conan should also give rise to somewhat longer combats (my longest since getting rules correct in STA was 5 rounds, and that due to misses that mathematically were exceptional: 10 straight on Diff 2 at a min TN of 11...)...

The 2d20 rules, aside from Momentum/(Doom/threat), are pretty straightforward.
 

Water Bob

Adventurer
(Referring to the Mongoose Conan RPG) Just the HP and level mechanic flies in the face of Conan - even with what Mongoose did with it (and they did a great job considering the system and the level of pastiche they introduced) they couldn't have an experienced Conan (one only has to look at the statblocks they published for him) felled by a poisoned ring, a single sphere of flashfire etc. without constantly rolling '1's.

The ring you refer to, I assume, is the one used by Tsotha-lanit in The Scarlet Citadel. According to the story, the secreted needle in the ring was coated with the juice of the purple lotus.

According to the Mongoose game rules, the juice of the purple lotus is "by far the most paralytic poison known, capable of felliing even the mighty Conan." (Page 277, 2E Core rulebook.) It's a DC 28 Fort Save to avoid the effect, and damage is 1d6 points of DEX plus immediate paralysis. This save must be made 1d6 times, once per round (6 seconds).

According to The Road of Kings, King Conan is a 20th level character (the highest level allowed in the game), with a +20 Fort Save. So, this awesome character, fails on a roll of 1-7, which is a 35% chance of failure each try--and 1d6 Saves must be made in order to avoid the effects of the poison.

With an average of 2-3 saves, and a 35% chance of failure per roll, chances are that even mighty Conan will go down, paralyzed, when the juice of the purple lotus is used against him.

So...I'd say that your statement/opinion above is incorrect, and that the Mongoose guys did a pretty damn good job of modeling the effect of purple lotus in the game as it was presented in the story.





Which instance of flashfire are you referring to? Let me know, and I'll look it up to see how it Mongoose directs us to use it in the game.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
Yes there are - ones which are counter to exhibited preferences of the individual stating them.

Examples:
  • Someone who hates the mechanics of Robotech while liking the mechanics of Rifts (THey're the same rules, mostly word for word).
  • someone who hates the rules of Twilight 2000 2.2 but loves the rules of Dark Conspiracy (again, same rules)
  • Someone who hates Fate System for its fate points rules, but loves Cortex Plus for its Plot Point Rules (which are substantially the same)

Illogical taste preferences aren't per se wrong, but they still are illogical.
Sorry, now you've lost me.

Are you seriously so determined to Be Right™ that you go completely off track to invent examples that nobody has talked about in the thread?

If so: I am wrong. You are right.

Now then: how about if I argue that by labelling "I dislike meta rules" "illogical" you're only inadvertantly revealing things about yourself?
 

CapnZapp

Legend
Related to how the mechanic might or might not be a better fit for Mutant Chronicles than Conan:

My fundamental beef is that I am convinced a game benefits from being uniquely sculpted to support the world and campaign of its designated rpg.

In other words: I don't like generic systems. I don't like the concept of a "2d20 system" that is used for several different games, campaigns, genres, and tropes. I never cared for GURPS the system (some of their source books are treasure troves though).

D&D the rules isn't so much designed to support D&D the campaign as the other way around. But still. On the other hand, it does everything else spectacularly badly.

WFRP is definitely closely coupled with its rules. The One Ring is a game specifically designed to promote a gaming style appropriate for LOTR. And so on.

If I were to run Star Trek, say; I would definitely want something with as much of its own identity as Call of Cthulhu is separate from D&D.

The secret is that the benefits of "not having to learn a new system" are small, and the drawbacks of how running every game with the same engine makes them all look and feel samey are devastating.



My 2 cents
 

Water Bob

Adventurer
That said, STA is rather cinematic, and due to the high similarity, I'd expect Conan to be similar.



Here's something I worry about, from past experience with game systems that declare story effects.

I'll use a game system that I love, as an example--WEG's Star Wars D6. After the 1st edition of the game came out, a Wild Die was added to every task throw. I think this change came with Second Edition. I played with the Wild Die for years.

The effect of the Wild Die is this: One of the die rolled in a task is considered the "Wild Die". You'll want to use a different color of die than the others to distinguish it from any other dice thrown. When the WD shows a "6", then the die explodes. You get to roll it again to increase your total (higher is better), and you get to keep re-rolling it as long as you roll sixes.

When the WD showed a "1*", the GM could totally ignore it as anything special and just count it as a "1" to the total of the roll. The GM could also declare that the WD 1 and the highest other die in the roll be subtracted from the roll, thereby lowering the total. Or, the GM could declare a "complication".

* This is the 2E R&E version of the WD rule (and the WD 1 is considered only on the first roll for a character during a turn--not on any subsequent actions during that same round). In straight 2E, the rule is a bit different. I cite this one because I ran an awesome 7 year Star Wars campaign using R&E. Today, my favorite version of the WEG D6 rules is straight first edtion--where there is no Wild Die at all.



The complication is a story element. One example given in the book is the scene in Return of the Jedi where Han attempts to stealthily approach the scout troopers on Endor's moon. He steps on a branch. It cracks. The noise alerts the trooper and allows him to backhand Han and jump on the speederbike to escape--starting the speederbike chase.

In 2E R&E terms, Han rolled a Sneak task, but ended up rolling a "1" on his Wild Die. The GM decided on a complication--Han snapping the branch and alterting the trooper.



Note that WEG's D6 system, 2E, does what the 2d20 lovers scream is so innovated about the system. With the Wild Die, the D6 system also has results where a task succeeds but there is a complication (Total of task beats target number, but a 1 on the Wild Die is deemed to be a complication story element). Also, a character can fail a task because of a complication (as probably was Han's roll--he probably didn't roll high enough so that the trooper wouldn't hear him).



This sounds like a neat idea. And, it can be, sometimes. But, I found that the "complication" started more discussions, wasted more time, and ruffled more feathers than what it was worth.

1. The "1" on the Wild Die happens often. Every one out of six task throws on a single player's turn results in a "1" on the WD. This is often enough that we started repeating ourselves--and that wasn't fun. Since Star Wars is a combat oriented game, and I strived for a lot of swashbuckling action, just like the movies, it was often that the WD "1" would occur on a task to shoot a blaster.

We started running out of ideas on what could go wrong with a blaster shot. The game suggested that the weapon ran out of tibanna gas and could no longer fire. Fine. But, how often does this happen? Certainly it doesn't happen as often as the complications that occurred.

2. Then, as GM, I tried to be more story oriented and come up with something more exciting than just a blaster pistol running dry of tibanna gas or having its power cell used up. I decided one time that the "complication" was that the weapon jammed, and the powercell overheated and blew up in the character's hand. Pretty cool, huh? The player didn't think so. He wanted to know why I was picking on him.

The last guy who had a complication slipped on an oil patch that jarred his shot and made it go wild. The player before that had a complication where his stray bolt blew out the lights, and everyone had to fight in the dark. I decided to that it was "cinematic" to blow up the blaster. I mean, at least it wasn't another, "Oh, your blaster gas cannister in your weapon is dry."

But, the player didn't think this was cool at all. He felt he was being picked on. Now, I've got a disgruntled player because of a game mechanic.



I also found that I didn't like to "have" to come up with complications just because the dice said so. Sure, I could add up normally or just reduce the task total, as stated above, but when I did implement a complication, the player would feel singled out and picked on if others didn't get complications.

It was a mess, so I added a die roll--leaving it to luck--for when complications showed up. That stopped the "picked on" feeling somewhat, but I didn't select a complication when I could have gone with one of the other options. But, players still felt slighted and sometimes got argumentative if they perceived a creative complication to not be fair to them.

Finally, I just threw out the possibility of complications all-together. Yeah, on the package is sounded like a neat thing to have in the game. In practice, it didn't work so well.




This situation is one of my fears about the 2d20 system. The dice say COME UP WITH A COOL STORY MOMENT! But, I'm out of ideas at the moment. Or, worse, a player sees that the dice say COME UP WITH A COOL STORY MOMENT! And, the player does--but it's something that I think, as GM, is too much. And, now, we're in a debate, rather than playing the game.
 

Water Bob

Adventurer
In other words: I don't like generic systems. I don't like the concept of a "2d20 system" that is used for several different games, campaigns, genres, and tropes. I never cared for GURPS the system (some of their source books are treasure troves though).

QFT.

Although GURPS has outlived many a game and specific game system, I don't think GURPS (from what I've read) has ever been a best selling game. I think I read that it continues to squeak by on thin margins having fought off several times when the game might have thrown in the towel.

Most generic game systems die, it seems. I love D6 for Star Wars, but generic D6 certainly didn't take off (You can download it now for free). Most house systems seem to fail (I'm think now of GDW's house system used in Traveller The New Era). Classic Traveller started as a generic science fiction game but quickly became a game with its own universe (the Third Imperium). Mongoose has tried to make their new version of Traveller a generic set of rules used for other games with little real success (other than Traveller...and, maybe, 2300). Mercenaries, Spies, and Private Eyes, another generic system, went no where.

I think the most successful "generic" system we've seen (GURPS is the longest running, I think) is WotC's push with the d20 system after 3E D&D came out. But, those results are varying--levels and hit points fit D&D well, but does not fit all of the games the system was married to during the d20 boom.

I agree that games seem to work better when they have their own systems created specifically for the game in question.
 

Related Articles

Remove ads

Remove ads

Top