Concealment, Cover, Invisible

[hennebeck]

What's the difference?
How do bonuses stack?

Cover gives -2 to attack. Concealment gives +2 to Def. Is that a total of +4?
And what does "Concealment 11" mean for Invis?

Really trying to get this all figured out so I can play a demo this weekend.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

A penalty to attack and a bonus to defence would stack up, yes.

As regards full on invisibility - I believe we just don't have the information yet about what Concealment 11 might mean.

 

[OakwoodDM]

Do we even know that Concealment 11 is in 4e? Is that not just something taken from the new DDM rules?

If it is just from the Mini rules, since it was in the initial verson of the game, I would suspect it's a minis only thing and not a foresight to how 4e's going to be.

 

[hennebeck]

I kinda agree with the invisible deal.

Is there ever a time when someone with concealment wouldn't have cover too?

 

[OakwoodDM]

I kinda agree with the invisible deal.

Is there ever a time when someone with concealment wouldn't have cover too?

In theory, concealment can be created by lighting conditions, I believe (at least by 3.5 definitions), and so might be completely out in the open as far as cover's concerned.

 

[hong]

"Concealment 11" means you have to roll 11 or higher on d20 to hit, IIRC. It's the same as 50% concealment miss chance in 3E, rephrased.

 

[Mentat55]

I kinda agree with the invisible deal.

Is there ever a time when someone with concealment wouldn't have cover too?

Cover is when there is a physical barrier that could potentially block an attack, e.g., a wall or another creature. Concealment is being unable to see a target clearly enough to strike accurately, e.g., poor lighting or fog. So one condition can (and usually does) apply without the other.

 

[Steely Dan]

"Concealment 11" means you have to roll 11 or higher on d20 to hit, IIRC. It's the same as 50% concealment miss chance in 3E, rephrased.

Yep, Hong is irritatingly right again (don't worry, I don't hate you because you're beautiful) – this is the same way it is in 2.0 DDM.

We have quite a few unadjusted rolls (usually) in 4th Ed – conceal, saving throws, dying, recharge etc.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

before 3.0 concealment was a straight modifier (-2 or -4 IIRC), no seperate roll, which you had to remember as a defender...

 

[hennebeck]

So let me ask one more time, you will always have concealment if you have cover, i.e. behind an upturned table, but you might have concealment without cover as well, if it is smoky or what not?

Right?