Edena_of_Neith
First Post
'There are no spells above 9th level, and there never should be, for this would place powers into the hands of characters that is normally reserved for the Deities.'
Paraphrase from The Complete Book of Wizards, 2nd Edition.
-
Yes, we have 10th level spells.
We have the 10th level psionic enchantments of Athas. (Preserver Metamorphosis being my favorite. )
We had True Dweomers in 2nd Edition.
We have Epic Spells in 3rd Edition and 3.5. Pay hundreds of thousands of gold, spend months or years of work, lose tens of thousands of experience points, and create a spell that has a DC of 100, or 150, or 200, 300, 400, 500, or a 1,000+. (How any mage is supposed to cast a spell with a DC of over 100, is quite beyond me. And that, I suppose, is the idea.)
But we also have the true 10th level spells, the spells from the Arcane Age. Copies of these spells are still lying all over the place, in assorted worlds and Planes and goodness knows where else.
So, what happens if the archmagistress finds and studies a scroll containing a 10th level spell, in the Forgotten Realms or Realmspace?
Well, she can cast it, of course! Obviously she can cast it, and she doesn't need to spend any money, any time, or any experience points doing so. She has the spell, and can employ it's power as she pleases.
There are just a few minor restrictions and problems with casting such 10th level spells.
(This minor problems are courtesy of The Magister, 2nd Edition. A must read, I would daresay, concerning the ways and history of magic in the Forgotten Realms.)
The archmagistress must have 20 levels as a wizard. If she has levels in another class, she must have enough epic levels to compensate (if she has 5 levels as a fighter and 15 as a wizard, she needs 5 epic levels. If she has 15 levels in other classes and 5 levels as a wizard, she needs 15 epic levels.)
The archmagistress must have 20 Intelligence and 18 Wisdom, minimum.
A second wizard must be in physical contact with the archmagistress during the casting of the spell, as this second wizard is needed as an anchor. The overwhelming might of 10th level magic cannot be controlled entirely by any single mind (the spell Two-Minds will not help in this situation. It must actually be a second wizard. A duplicate of the original wizard, however, is perfectly fine as an anchor. Even a simulacrum would do (using the old 2nd edition spell, extrapolated) if it was powerful enough.
The anchoring wizard must have 18 levels as a wizard (or appropriate epic levels to counter levels in other classes) , he or she must have 18 Intelligence, and he or she must have 16 Wisdom.
When the 10th level spell is cast, all of the following occur:
The archmagistress and her anchoring wizard both lose 1 level, dropping to the midpoint of the next level down.
The archmagistress and her anchoring wizard both lose 1 to 4 points of Constitution temporarily.
The archmagistress and her anchoring wizard both take 2 to 8 hit points of damage.
The casting of the 10th level spell attracts the direct and immediate attention of both Mystra and Azuth, if within Realmspace. One of them will appear to have a chat with the archmagistress and anchoring wizard immediately (if the archmagistress has an artifact or relic of Shar, and immediately uses it to leave Realmspace, she can avoid this chat. If she has psionics and immediately Worldwalks out of Realmspace, she can avoid this chat. Otherwise, there is NO escaping the mandatory chat with Mystra and/or Azuth, for either the archmagistress or the anchor wizard.)
If the archmagistress cast the 10th level spell for purely altruistic reasons (in the spirit of those words, not in the form of justifications or rationalizations) then the chat will merely be a stern reminder from Mystra as to the responsibilities of power, the needed respect for magic and it's consequences, and a simple warning to NEVER use the 10th level spell again ... except for truly altruistic reasons, in which case the archmagistress is welcome to use it repeatedly. Of course, using the spell to save her own life almost always is NOT an altruistic way to use magic!
If the archmagistress had someone Commune with Mystra before casting the 10th level spell, this warning would have been delivered through the Commune. A wise archmagistress would do well to learn about the reactions of Mystra to such incredible spellslinging, before doing the actual spellslinging.
If the archmagistress cast the spell for a reason that was not altruistic, the chat ends with one of the following four options, from worst to most worse:
- Mystra's Choice for the archmagistress (being turned into a watchnorn, a staff spirit, or other servant of Mystra. The character becomes an NPC under the DM's control.)
- Death. No resurrection. Wish will not restore the character to life. 10th level magic will not restore the character to life. Mystra takes the character's soul to Elysium. The 10th level spell is also taken by Mystra, never to be seen again in Faerun.
- Death by torture, either by Mystra directly or by her servants. Afterwards, in an act of forgiveness, she takes the soul to Elysium.
- Death by torture, and the archmagistress's soul is sent to the City of Kelemvor, as a reward for such profound disloyalty.
If the archmagistress somehow managed to flee Realmspace before Mystra had her talk with the character, then the character had better NEVER return (even for the briefest instant) to Realmspace. Because if she does return, Mystra will pounce, and the LATTER options above will be meted out to the archmagistress.
Note that the above penalties are for the first (and only) offense, of casting a 10th level spell in a non-altruistic way. Ignorance of Mystra's rule is not an excuse. Pleas for mercy and mitigating circumstances do not help.
If the DM decides this is too harsh, he or she should consider the condition set forth below (see below.) The DM could allow (unprecedented) mercy: the character could be resurrectable (but not able to cast 10th level magic ever again), the character could be granted permanent exile from Realmspace, or the character could be stripped of 10th level magic and required to serve for many years as a servant of Mystra, or going on quests set forth by Mystra.
Why so harsh? Why would a neutral good Goddess be so absolute about this?
It is simple:
The Forgotten Realms is magic rich, and many races and spellcasters exist who could employ 10th level magic, even with the restrictions. The phaerimm of old averaged 40th level (if you don't believe me, look at the 2nd edition Ruins of Myth Drannor boxed set) and they were an evil race, desiring to obliterate all life on the surface of Toril.
If Mystra allowed non-altruistic use of 10th level magic on Toril, the inhabitants of Toril would destroy each other.
Indeed, if one looks at the pre-Mystra history of Toril, when Mystryl allowed free use of 10th and 11th level magic, we see one civilization after another being reduced to cinders and charred bodies by magic. We see vast regions of the continent reduced from verdant forest to desert, or to diseased moorland, or frigid steppe. We see great icecaps covering vast regions that should have been green, whole inland seas dried up, and the very landscape altered beyond recognition.
If Mystra did not impose this rule, the current inhabitants of the world would destroy all that is LEFT of the Forgotten Realms.
If the intrepid archmagistress wishes to freely cast 10th level magic, she can leave Realmspace and do so elsewhere.
The archmagistress can freely cast 10th level spells on Athas, Aebrinis, Oerth, Mystara, the Hollow World, and in many other places (freely on Krynn in the Current Age: in the previous Age, the Gods would have invited the archmagistress to leave long before she could access 10th level spells.)
Heck, the archmagistress can even freely cast 10th level magic in Ravenloft. 10th level spells are not powerful enough to enable the archmagistress to leave Ravenloft, but they ARE powerful enough to travel from Domain to Domain (even through the barriers erected by the Darklords, an exception to the normal rules of the Demiplane of Dread.) Of course, the Darklords will want to destroy this threat, and if 10th level magic is used in hatred, anger, or spite, that would definitely call for a Dark Powers Check.
If the Deities (Mystra, Azuth, et. all) are not used in the campaign, then the archmagistress can freely employ 10th level spells in Realmspace as she pleases, throwing those spells for any reason that comes to mind or whim.
The other, lesser, restrictions and problems remain in place, however.
(And now, the archmagistress with her FREE use of 10th level spells can fight all those phaerimm of 40th level each, ALL of them having FREE use of 10th level magic. Won't that just be a barrel of fun and laughs?)
Throwing a 10th level spell normally causes a surge or shaking of the Weave that can be felt across the entire planet of Toril by those who can detect such things.
Anyone with True Seeing, a Detect Magic, or the like in place in the presence of 10th level magic is going to be a little (or a lot) overwhelmed by the almost heavenly display of multicolored glory that confronts them.
10th level magic is truly, colossal. It does not matter whether it is flashy and bright, or subtle and unseen ... the casting of a 10th level spell represents an almost unthinkable release of power.
10th level magic can remake reality in major ways. Remember that these are spells that make Shape Change and Wish look weak in comparison. Perhaps an analogy would be the casting of Resurrection by Willow in Buffy the Vampire Slayer ... the casting of that spell tore the fabric of reality itself asunder, and in the new reality the First Evil was able to begin the extermination of all potential Chosen. And, of course, resurrection - true resurrection - was something that SIMPLY DIDN'T HAPPEN in places like Earth. Yet, Willow made it happen.
Willow's final alteration, in making all of the potential Chosen, into Chosen, was another 10th level incantation, but in that case at least she had an artifact/relic to help her with the casting of the spell, plus an anchoring mage!
It is thought that Larloch and Mystra have cut a deal of some sort that actually allows Larloch to freely cast 10th level spells.
Nobody knows the truth of this. Mystra does not answer questions concerning such things. And if anyone has gone to Larloch, asked him for a direct answer and gotten one, nobody knows because nobody has ever returned alive from Larloch's necropolis.
Perhaps the Chosen of Mystra know. Perhaps the Magister knows (remember that the MAGISTER is not allowed to cast 10th level magic, the penalty being death if she tries!) If so, they aren't talking.
But holy mackeral, the details of such a deal would be most interesting to hear, if someone could actually find out the truth about the matter!
-
Off-Topic, Dark Humor
Now, here's a way - NOT - that a group of high level characters could obtain some of those nifty 9th level spells they are so eager to have:
Character 1: Let's go to Blackstaff Tower. Khelben has 700 spells at his disposal, they say!
Character 2: Agreed. We'll buy spells off Khelben, or Laeral if Khelben won't cooperate.
Character 3: And if they won't sell, we'll just have to get nasty.
Character 4: I'll bet Khelben has that Prismatic Blade I want!
They go to Blackstaff Tower. There is no entry, and no response. After a while, the characters decide to get tough with these onery NPCs:
Character 1: We're not afraid of you, Khelben. If you won't sell the spells, we'll take them by force.
Character 2: We'll level Blackstaff Tower and take everything. We HAVE the power to do so.
Character 3: We'll call out high powered friends from other worlds to help. You don't stand a chance.
Character 4: And then, I'll use your Prismatic Blade to kill all your friends, because you didn't help us freely!
And, finally, out of the depths of Blackstaff Tower, comes a response:
Khelben: That's it.
Paraphrase from The Complete Book of Wizards, 2nd Edition.
-
Yes, we have 10th level spells.
We have the 10th level psionic enchantments of Athas. (Preserver Metamorphosis being my favorite. )
We had True Dweomers in 2nd Edition.
We have Epic Spells in 3rd Edition and 3.5. Pay hundreds of thousands of gold, spend months or years of work, lose tens of thousands of experience points, and create a spell that has a DC of 100, or 150, or 200, 300, 400, 500, or a 1,000+. (How any mage is supposed to cast a spell with a DC of over 100, is quite beyond me. And that, I suppose, is the idea.)
But we also have the true 10th level spells, the spells from the Arcane Age. Copies of these spells are still lying all over the place, in assorted worlds and Planes and goodness knows where else.
So, what happens if the archmagistress finds and studies a scroll containing a 10th level spell, in the Forgotten Realms or Realmspace?
Well, she can cast it, of course! Obviously she can cast it, and she doesn't need to spend any money, any time, or any experience points doing so. She has the spell, and can employ it's power as she pleases.
There are just a few minor restrictions and problems with casting such 10th level spells.
(This minor problems are courtesy of The Magister, 2nd Edition. A must read, I would daresay, concerning the ways and history of magic in the Forgotten Realms.)
The archmagistress must have 20 levels as a wizard. If she has levels in another class, she must have enough epic levels to compensate (if she has 5 levels as a fighter and 15 as a wizard, she needs 5 epic levels. If she has 15 levels in other classes and 5 levels as a wizard, she needs 15 epic levels.)
The archmagistress must have 20 Intelligence and 18 Wisdom, minimum.
A second wizard must be in physical contact with the archmagistress during the casting of the spell, as this second wizard is needed as an anchor. The overwhelming might of 10th level magic cannot be controlled entirely by any single mind (the spell Two-Minds will not help in this situation. It must actually be a second wizard. A duplicate of the original wizard, however, is perfectly fine as an anchor. Even a simulacrum would do (using the old 2nd edition spell, extrapolated) if it was powerful enough.
The anchoring wizard must have 18 levels as a wizard (or appropriate epic levels to counter levels in other classes) , he or she must have 18 Intelligence, and he or she must have 16 Wisdom.
When the 10th level spell is cast, all of the following occur:
The archmagistress and her anchoring wizard both lose 1 level, dropping to the midpoint of the next level down.
The archmagistress and her anchoring wizard both lose 1 to 4 points of Constitution temporarily.
The archmagistress and her anchoring wizard both take 2 to 8 hit points of damage.
The casting of the 10th level spell attracts the direct and immediate attention of both Mystra and Azuth, if within Realmspace. One of them will appear to have a chat with the archmagistress and anchoring wizard immediately (if the archmagistress has an artifact or relic of Shar, and immediately uses it to leave Realmspace, she can avoid this chat. If she has psionics and immediately Worldwalks out of Realmspace, she can avoid this chat. Otherwise, there is NO escaping the mandatory chat with Mystra and/or Azuth, for either the archmagistress or the anchor wizard.)
If the archmagistress cast the 10th level spell for purely altruistic reasons (in the spirit of those words, not in the form of justifications or rationalizations) then the chat will merely be a stern reminder from Mystra as to the responsibilities of power, the needed respect for magic and it's consequences, and a simple warning to NEVER use the 10th level spell again ... except for truly altruistic reasons, in which case the archmagistress is welcome to use it repeatedly. Of course, using the spell to save her own life almost always is NOT an altruistic way to use magic!
If the archmagistress had someone Commune with Mystra before casting the 10th level spell, this warning would have been delivered through the Commune. A wise archmagistress would do well to learn about the reactions of Mystra to such incredible spellslinging, before doing the actual spellslinging.
If the archmagistress cast the spell for a reason that was not altruistic, the chat ends with one of the following four options, from worst to most worse:
- Mystra's Choice for the archmagistress (being turned into a watchnorn, a staff spirit, or other servant of Mystra. The character becomes an NPC under the DM's control.)
- Death. No resurrection. Wish will not restore the character to life. 10th level magic will not restore the character to life. Mystra takes the character's soul to Elysium. The 10th level spell is also taken by Mystra, never to be seen again in Faerun.
- Death by torture, either by Mystra directly or by her servants. Afterwards, in an act of forgiveness, she takes the soul to Elysium.
- Death by torture, and the archmagistress's soul is sent to the City of Kelemvor, as a reward for such profound disloyalty.
If the archmagistress somehow managed to flee Realmspace before Mystra had her talk with the character, then the character had better NEVER return (even for the briefest instant) to Realmspace. Because if she does return, Mystra will pounce, and the LATTER options above will be meted out to the archmagistress.
Note that the above penalties are for the first (and only) offense, of casting a 10th level spell in a non-altruistic way. Ignorance of Mystra's rule is not an excuse. Pleas for mercy and mitigating circumstances do not help.
If the DM decides this is too harsh, he or she should consider the condition set forth below (see below.) The DM could allow (unprecedented) mercy: the character could be resurrectable (but not able to cast 10th level magic ever again), the character could be granted permanent exile from Realmspace, or the character could be stripped of 10th level magic and required to serve for many years as a servant of Mystra, or going on quests set forth by Mystra.
Why so harsh? Why would a neutral good Goddess be so absolute about this?
It is simple:
The Forgotten Realms is magic rich, and many races and spellcasters exist who could employ 10th level magic, even with the restrictions. The phaerimm of old averaged 40th level (if you don't believe me, look at the 2nd edition Ruins of Myth Drannor boxed set) and they were an evil race, desiring to obliterate all life on the surface of Toril.
If Mystra allowed non-altruistic use of 10th level magic on Toril, the inhabitants of Toril would destroy each other.
Indeed, if one looks at the pre-Mystra history of Toril, when Mystryl allowed free use of 10th and 11th level magic, we see one civilization after another being reduced to cinders and charred bodies by magic. We see vast regions of the continent reduced from verdant forest to desert, or to diseased moorland, or frigid steppe. We see great icecaps covering vast regions that should have been green, whole inland seas dried up, and the very landscape altered beyond recognition.
If Mystra did not impose this rule, the current inhabitants of the world would destroy all that is LEFT of the Forgotten Realms.
If the intrepid archmagistress wishes to freely cast 10th level magic, she can leave Realmspace and do so elsewhere.
The archmagistress can freely cast 10th level spells on Athas, Aebrinis, Oerth, Mystara, the Hollow World, and in many other places (freely on Krynn in the Current Age: in the previous Age, the Gods would have invited the archmagistress to leave long before she could access 10th level spells.)
Heck, the archmagistress can even freely cast 10th level magic in Ravenloft. 10th level spells are not powerful enough to enable the archmagistress to leave Ravenloft, but they ARE powerful enough to travel from Domain to Domain (even through the barriers erected by the Darklords, an exception to the normal rules of the Demiplane of Dread.) Of course, the Darklords will want to destroy this threat, and if 10th level magic is used in hatred, anger, or spite, that would definitely call for a Dark Powers Check.
If the Deities (Mystra, Azuth, et. all) are not used in the campaign, then the archmagistress can freely employ 10th level spells in Realmspace as she pleases, throwing those spells for any reason that comes to mind or whim.
The other, lesser, restrictions and problems remain in place, however.
(And now, the archmagistress with her FREE use of 10th level spells can fight all those phaerimm of 40th level each, ALL of them having FREE use of 10th level magic. Won't that just be a barrel of fun and laughs?)
Throwing a 10th level spell normally causes a surge or shaking of the Weave that can be felt across the entire planet of Toril by those who can detect such things.
Anyone with True Seeing, a Detect Magic, or the like in place in the presence of 10th level magic is going to be a little (or a lot) overwhelmed by the almost heavenly display of multicolored glory that confronts them.
10th level magic is truly, colossal. It does not matter whether it is flashy and bright, or subtle and unseen ... the casting of a 10th level spell represents an almost unthinkable release of power.
10th level magic can remake reality in major ways. Remember that these are spells that make Shape Change and Wish look weak in comparison. Perhaps an analogy would be the casting of Resurrection by Willow in Buffy the Vampire Slayer ... the casting of that spell tore the fabric of reality itself asunder, and in the new reality the First Evil was able to begin the extermination of all potential Chosen. And, of course, resurrection - true resurrection - was something that SIMPLY DIDN'T HAPPEN in places like Earth. Yet, Willow made it happen.
Willow's final alteration, in making all of the potential Chosen, into Chosen, was another 10th level incantation, but in that case at least she had an artifact/relic to help her with the casting of the spell, plus an anchoring mage!
It is thought that Larloch and Mystra have cut a deal of some sort that actually allows Larloch to freely cast 10th level spells.
Nobody knows the truth of this. Mystra does not answer questions concerning such things. And if anyone has gone to Larloch, asked him for a direct answer and gotten one, nobody knows because nobody has ever returned alive from Larloch's necropolis.
Perhaps the Chosen of Mystra know. Perhaps the Magister knows (remember that the MAGISTER is not allowed to cast 10th level magic, the penalty being death if she tries!) If so, they aren't talking.
But holy mackeral, the details of such a deal would be most interesting to hear, if someone could actually find out the truth about the matter!
-
Off-Topic, Dark Humor
Now, here's a way - NOT - that a group of high level characters could obtain some of those nifty 9th level spells they are so eager to have:
Character 1: Let's go to Blackstaff Tower. Khelben has 700 spells at his disposal, they say!
Character 2: Agreed. We'll buy spells off Khelben, or Laeral if Khelben won't cooperate.
Character 3: And if they won't sell, we'll just have to get nasty.
Character 4: I'll bet Khelben has that Prismatic Blade I want!
They go to Blackstaff Tower. There is no entry, and no response. After a while, the characters decide to get tough with these onery NPCs:
Character 1: We're not afraid of you, Khelben. If you won't sell the spells, we'll take them by force.
Character 2: We'll level Blackstaff Tower and take everything. We HAVE the power to do so.
Character 3: We'll call out high powered friends from other worlds to help. You don't stand a chance.
Character 4: And then, I'll use your Prismatic Blade to kill all your friends, because you didn't help us freely!
And, finally, out of the depths of Blackstaff Tower, comes a response:
Khelben: That's it.
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