Condition Track

[Szatany]

It has been said that "Star Wars Saga Edition and Book of Nine Swords were both 'significant previews' of 4th Edition." Remains to be seen what bits, of course.

square books, pictures from D&D the movie everywhere

 

[Theovis]

It has been said that "Star Wars Saga Edition and Book of Nine Swords were both 'significant previews' of 4th Edition." Remains to be seen what bits, of course.

square books, pictures from D&D the movie everywhere

I'd be fine with Saga-style condition track, but I'm a bit wary of their Defenses system (replacing both saves and AC). I'd lay money that skills are going to be as-per-SWSE.

 

[MarkB]

Right, but I don't think we'll see that in the 4E version. First, I think being able to slide down the track that easily is counter to the feel of D&D, though it works very well for SW. But more to the point, we already know (or at least think we know) that "bloodied" is a specific condition that indicates "half or fewer HP." I can't imagine the game would have both that and something as specific as "every time you suffer more than X damage" in a single track. That would get complex.

SWSE also has a mechanic which kicks in at half HP, called 'second wind', which allows you to spend a swift action to regain some HPs after you reach that point.

It should also be pointed out that "half total hit points" is used as a game mechanic at least twice in the PHBII - the Dragon Shaman can only heal allies up to half hit points with his healing aura, and the Barbarian berserker rage feature kicks in once you drop below half hitpoints. Clearly this mechanic has been on the minds of the designers for awhile.

Given the way D&D abstracts hit points as "adrenaline damage" rather than, necessarily, actual injury, perhaps they're quantifying this in 4e, so that the 'top' half of your hit points are effectively just morale, and you only start taking physical damage (become 'bloodied') when below half. That could have interesting implications for injury-based poisons and secondary effects.

From the one game I've played (so far) of SWSE, I like the condition track, and see it far more as a substitute for ability damage or level drain than as a direct tally to hit points. In that context, I think it fits the D&D game model perfectly.

 

[Simplicity]

From the one game I've played (so far) of SWSE, I like the condition track, and see it far more as a substitute for ability damage or level drain than as a direct tally to hit points. In that context, I think it fits the D&D game model perfectly.

Oh, now that is not a bad idea at all. (Seriously).
If a condition track eliminates level drain and/or ability damage. I'm all for it.

 

[kmdietri]

Hmmm this just seems like one more thing the DM has to keep track of on all mobs...

I thought they were gonna make it easier to use lots of monsters, not harder.

 

[MarkB]

Hmmm this just seems like one more thing the DM has to keep track of on all mobs...

I thought they were gonna make it easier to use lots of monsters, not harder.

3.5e already has three separate tracks to monitor for hit points (lethal, non-lethal and temporary), three modifiers to ability scores (damage, drain and bonuses/penalties) and a whole slew of different spell effects that provide miscellaneous modifiers to a variety of traits (Bless / Bane, Prayer, bard song, etc.) all of which have to be tracked independently.

If even some of these effects can be unified under a single system such as the Condition Tracker, the net effect will be less stuff to track, not more.

 

[kmdietri]

3.5e already has three separate tracks to monitor for hit points (lethal, non-lethal and temporary), three modifiers to ability scores (damage, drain and bonuses/penalties) and a whole slew of different spell effects that provide miscellaneous modifiers to a variety of traits (Bless / Bane, Prayer, bard song, etc.) all of which have to be tracked independently.

If even some of these effects can be unified under a single system such as the Condition Tracker, the net effect will be less stuff to track, not more.

So they're getting rid of all the different ways to get more hp's as well?

 

[MarkB]

So they're getting rid of all the different ways to get more hp's as well?

Hey, I'm just speculating here, in a "Wouldn't it be cool if it worked this way" sense - we don't know what they're doing yet.

 

[kmdietri]

Hey, I'm just speculating here, in a "Wouldn't it be cool if it worked this way" sense - we don't know what they're doing yet.

True true, very true.

I think that is what's annoying most of all....

 

[KarinsDad]

Oh my please no. That can be difficult to count without a machine sometimes. Quickly, 75% of 69 hp?

For years, we had a 1/3rd (round closest) wounded, 2/3rds wounded, 100% wounded as -1/-2/-3 to rolls. It worked fine.

If they do something like this, they will probably put the numbers on the hit points for monsters:

70/47/23

Note: the second and third number always add up to the first number and it doesn't matter if you subtract hit points or add them.

So, 75% wouldn't be that bad, but I doubt they will do 100%/75%/50%/25% (or even 100%/67%/33%) because it would be 4 (3) numbers on the sheet. I suspect that if they do this (and do not do the Star Wars Condition Track), that it will be 100%/50% (round down).

In our current game, it is -2 at 50% and -4 at 100%. This is even more simple than the 67% version we previously used, and at -2 to all D20 rolls (we do not do damage rolls), it forces PCs to sometimes heal up in combat if they want to keep kicking butt.

And, nobody takes that last gasp swing at 0 hit points when it is at -4.

There is a completely different player mindset on combat when there are wounded penalities in the game.