D&D 5E Confession: I Sometimes Miss Vancian Casting

[Herobizkit]

Vancian magic is the whole reason I've never played Wizards to any large degree. Clerics weren't so terrible because most of their spells were Cure spells (and later, spontaneous Cure spells) anyhow.

Even with the advent of 5e's spellcasting system, I am still loathe to try a Wizard. The feeling of not having access to spells on my class list just grates at me - the Wizard's "you COULD if you can find them" versus the Sorcerer's "you have what you have, deal with it".

 

[Mouseferatu]

No, I'm quite aware of the phenomenon you're talking about, and this isn't it. The instances I'm talking about are very specifically a byproduct of the Vancian casting system, not just general good memories of old gaming.

I do recognize that they weren't common--it's one of the reasons I wouldn't go back; the current system really is better in most ways--but that doesn't alter the fact that they were positive experiences inspired by a specific mechanic that I will miss for that reason.

 

[Mouseferatu]

The feeling of not having access to spells on my class list just grates at me - the Wizard's "you COULD if you can find them" versus the Sorcerer's "you have what you have, deal with it".

You do get to add a couple of spells at each level automatically. No, you won't have access to the entire spell list, but my experience is that you usually wind up with most of what you really want.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

No, I'm quite aware of the phenomenon you're talking about, and this isn't it. The instances I'm talking about are very specifically a byproduct of the Vancian casting system, not just general good memories of old gaming.

I do recognize that they weren't common--it's one of the reasons I wouldn't go back; the current system really is better in most ways--but that doesn't alter the fact that they were positive experiences inspired by a specific mechanic that I will miss for that reason.

Alright. I guess all I can say there is...cost of doing business? That sounds a little more impersonal than I mean it to be, but it has the right general concept. Perhaps it's better to think of it like glass-bottled soda. Glass bottles are a less-efficient and more-dangerous means of transmitting soda from place to place, but statistically speaking, people enjoy drinking from glass bottles more than plastic ones or cans. I've even heard that if you simply tell them the cup of soda they're drinking came from a glass bottle (even if it came from a can!) then, on average, people will like the soda slightly better--and that the effect disappears if you tell them it came from a can (even when it did, actually, come from a glass bottle).

So...I guess the takeaway here is to cherish the fact that, on rare occasions, you got to feel awesome for leveraging Vancian casting in a clever way. Some people will never experience that--but, as you've said, at this point it would probably be more harm than good for people-in-general to go back, even if it had moments of pure awesome.

 

[Li Shenron]

I think that the current rules are great for clerics, but I would love to go back to the old way for wizards

It was pretty much like that in the early playtest rules!

I remember that during the first playtest packets, it was theorized the possibility that 5e would have a different (at least partially) spellcasting method for each spellcaster class.

Eventually they decided instead to have the same method for using slots, and differentiate only in terms of preparation (but if you really look at it... it's not that spontaneous casters have much of an edge in 5e, since their number of spells known is quite close to how many they would prepare if they had to follow the preparation rules).

I think that this decision might have had something to do also with the multiclassing rules... With the current preparation rules, it's very easy to keep prepared spells separate but share all slots among your spellcasting classes. If Wizards were still Vancian, you'd have to keep also slots separate, some filled with Wizard spells and others empty.

 

[Staffan]

Just imagine it like the wizard duel in one of the Conan flicks. Two wizards staring at each other with really intense expressions, groaning, until eventually one of them slumps in defeat and his side falls back.

Or not.

That scene always cracked me up.

THIS is how wizards duel:
[video=youtube;GKm7NloL8bA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKm7NloL8bA[/video]

 

[Zak S]

...it would probably be more harm than good for people-in-general to go back, even if it had moments of pure awesome.

You're acting like there's literally a game design flaw in Vancian casting rather than "I. Ezekiel, prefer to play a more powerful wizard".

It's just taste.