D&D 4E Confirming the 4e Math, Stage 1: Iconics

eryndel

Explorer
Or....if someone would like to go through the trouble of determining how much gold a 24th level character would realistically have through adventuring I can include that factor in.

Stalker0,

Thanks for doing this, I'm looking forward to seeing how the math falls out. After the core 3 came out, I played around (in excel) with the parcel system and the items for high level characters. I tweaked that around, and it looks like using the High Level character rules, 24th level characters would get a L25, L24, and a L23 item, and a L23 item worth of gold to buy other stuff. This is worth an equivalent of 1,600,000 gp.

If you went through the treasure parcels, taking out the n+2 item, summed it through the first 23 levels, and divided by 4, a L24 character starting out would have an equivalent of 3,819,339 gp. Of that, 2,804,140 gp is in magic items (mostly lower level) and 1,015,199 gp is in gold and consumables (healing potions and such). Clearly some of that would be spent, and some of the gp value of magic items would be d/e'd into residuum for other items.

I'll let you use those numbers as you wish.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

NMcCoy

Explorer
Note that if you disenchant/sell all the items gained in the above summing-up of levels, you wind up with 1,576,027 worth of fungible value, remarkably close to the 1,600,000 total for the high-level rules (within 2%, in fact). Perhaps there's not so much of a discrepancy after all.
 

KarinsDad

Adventurer
Note that if you disenchant/sell all the items gained in the above summing-up of levels, you wind up with 1,576,027 worth of fungible value, remarkably close to the 1,600,000 total for the high-level rules (within 2%, in fact). Perhaps there's not so much of a discrepancy after all.

The L25, L24, and L23 items are worth:

625,000, 525,000, 425,000 or

1,575,000 GP in magic

plus 325,000 gold


How is that anywhere near:

2,804,140 GP in magic

plus 1,015,199 gold?


It's approximately 50% straight up or 40% disenchanted.
 

KarinsDad

Adventurer
If 2 land the first round, next round the opponent's AC is 4 less, it's actually VERY likely that by round 2 or 3 everyone will be hitting practically every turn as the monster's AC is now 8 less (with 4 players, 10 less with 5, 12 less with 6...)

Regicide said:
For instance, at level 1 if 4 characters use -2 AC until next round powers

And what first level powers would these be that can be used for at the beginning of the encounter, every single encounter in a given day and that the PCs of these four classes from the PHB have?

The strategy is actually to lower the monster's AC by round 2 and by round 3 to start unloading daily's on it 2 at a time. But whatever. It's a moot point because it does synergize better, and it's blatantly obvious. It's easier to lower ACs at higher levels especially with things like the rogue paragon path that gives a permanent -2 to AC on a crits and greater access to encounter powers that do it.

I could only find for level 24 PCs:

one Daily (Weapon of the Gods) and one Encounter power (Plague of Doom) for the Cleric

one Daily (Crack the Shell) and two Encounters powers (Griffon's Wrath, Chains of Sorrow) for the Fighter

one Daily (Feinting Flurry, but only helps the Rogue) and one Encounter power (Imperiling Strike) for the Rogue;

zero such powers for the Wizard;

Not all of these will work, they require everyone being able to attack the same target in the same round, and by the end of round one or two in most encounters, the PCs will be out of powers that can do this.

So, an average of maybe -6 or so to a single creature on round two (since some of these powers are not -2, but -stat mod) and an average of -1 to a single creature on round three unless the PCs start using Daily AC debuff powers.

Effectively what this strategy does is force the Rogue and Fighter on the same target and allows one target to be hit a lot early on. However, the PCs are at -3 to hit overall (compared to level 1) at level 24, so the +6 is not quite as potent as it sounds on the surface. One round of +3 vs. many rounds of -3.

And if a PC is stunned or (in the case of the Fighter or Rogue) restrained or otherwise incapacitated or too far away in round one, he might not be able to join in on the fun.


The best the group could do is save the Dailies for a solo once per day and whale on it a bit in possibly the first three or four rounds.

Course with no solo, the players would not know whether to use the Daily part of the strategy in a given encounter or save the Dailies (and effectively waste them by putting them on hold) hoping for a solo. So, 25% of the PC's 16 normal Daily attack powers could be in limbo.


No doubt. This is a cool synergy. It's a synergy that works for a few rounds in 10 to 20 or so rounds at high level and uses up 15% or so of Encounter attack powers and up to 25% or so of Daily attack powers (when needed). It also ups the chance to hit same level foes to about 80% for a round, higher level foes for a slightly less chance to hit.
 
Last edited:

keterys

First Post
The L25, L24, and L23 items are worth:

625,000, 525,000, 425,000 or

1,575,000 GP in magic

plus 325,000 gold


How is that anywhere near:

2,804,140 GP in magic

plus 1,015,199 gold?


It's approximately 50% straight up or 40% disenchanted.

You only get 20% on sold or DE-ed items so... it's a lot closer than you're thinking.
 

Stalker0

Legend
And what first level powers would these be that can be used for at the beginning of the encounter, every single encounter in a given day and that the PCs of these four classes from the PHB have?

Hey guys, let's keep the debate for the actual analysis, and leave this thread for the iconics please:)
 

NMcCoy

Explorer
The L25, L24, and L23 items are worth:
625,000, 525,000, 425,000 or
1,575,000 GP in magic
plus 325,000 gold
How is that anywhere near:
2,804,140 GP in magic
plus 1,015,199 gold?
It's approximately 50% straight up or 40% disenchanted.
The 2,804,140 GP in magic you cite isn't actually 2,804,140 GP in magic. (And presumably you're not hoarding all your gold as you level up, but spending it on appropriate-level items as well.)

At least 75% of that stuff, probably more, is going to be +1 to +4 items (weapon, armor, neck) that you're not using anymore because you've got +5 gear. Thus, it gets sold or disenchanted for 1/5th value.

Totaling the full value of all the magic items gained is a fundamentally inaccurate approach to determining "character wealth".
Consider the value of six +4 magic swords compared to a +5 magic sword to see why.
 
Last edited:

corwyn77

Adventurer
Or....if someone would like to go through the trouble of determining how much gold a 24th level character would realistically have through adventuring I can include that factor in.

Just going by the parcels in the DMG and ignoring the amount gained from disenchanting/selling magic items as well as the amount of cash spent upgrading items and such:

upon reaching level:
6 1,360
11 8,160
16 42,160
21 212,160
26 1,062,160
'31' 5,312,160


So, level 24 would be 602,160. By the dmg, a high level character gets cash equivalent to a level 23 (425,000).



Hmm, it seems like cash equivalent to an item of level (as opposed to level - 1) would be appropriate for new higher level characters.

*slaps forehead* After analyzing this, I just realized the cost for a level n item is the same as the cash reward for the whole 5 man party going from level n to n+1. I never noticed that before.
 
Last edited:

Truename

First Post
*slaps forehead* After analyzing this, I just realized the cost for a level n item is the same as the cash reward for the whole 5 man party going from level n to n+1. I never noticed that before.

I don't have my books, but I thought it was more than the cost of a magic item of level n. I seem to remember that the DMG treasure per level is equivalent to one magic item per person + a bit of "walking around money" per person.

If I'm remembering correctly, and assuming the walking around money is spent on consumables, bribes, and so forth, then a perfectly average lvl 24 char should have accumulated 23 lvl+2 items throughout his career: one of each level from 3 to 25. Some of them are useless, I presume.
 

corwyn77

Adventurer
I don't have my books, but I thought it was more than the cost of a magic item of level n. I seem to remember that the DMG treasure per level is equivalent to one magic item per person + a bit of "walking around money" per person.

If I'm remembering correctly, and assuming the walking around money is spent on consumables, bribes, and so forth, then a perfectly average lvl 24 char should have accumulated 23 lvl+2 items throughout his career: one of each level from 3 to 25. Some of them are useless, I presume.

Sorry I meant the party total treasure was twice the cost of an item of equal level.

For example, a level 5 item costs 1,000 gp. A 5th level party gets 2,000 gp getting to 6th level.

And I'm only speaking of pure cash here. There's also the magic items handed out. But it's only 4 per level so not enough for one/character/level.
 

Remove ads

Top