D&D 4E Confirming the 4e Math, Stage 1: Iconics

[Bayuer]

@Stalker
I looked to powers you choose for your characters. You didn't missed any single power that gives boost to AC/NADs or penalty to attacks rolls. Also powers that give stunned/blinded conditions. I just asking why? You are trying to see how team that take such a powers will fight? I don't think that iconic characters wil have such optimization... Especially if they don't know how good are powers that give stunned/blinded/+AC,NADs bonuses/penalties to hit.

Many player's don't build team characters, but individuals that have max. damage. Occasionaly taking some helping other powers, when player don't play leader role.

 

[Stalker0]

Many player's don't build team characters, but individuals that have max. damage. Occasionaly taking some helping other powers, when player don't play leader role.

My goal was to pick iconics that exemplified the various roles. So for the leaders I gave them lots of buff powers, and controllers lots of debuffs. If you find powers that you think would be more suited let me know.

 

[eryndel]

I'm not claiming the DMG method is all that accurate, but I'm also saying outright that the method of just totallying up all the treasure you might have gotten as a value is definitely inaccurate

I agree, and that's why I throw the caveats on d/e'd magic items and general levels of consumption. However, the "quick start" numbers are significantly lower than what a character who adventured would have and the preponderance of the gp value of items would be on near level items (n-4 or so) which are still useful to the character. That, and I fall into the camp that the magic items that show up are tailored for the group and thus, if not optimal, are near optimal.

My suggestion is, looking at the numbers, just pick a number and run with it. Frankly, I would think most of the significant character variables will come from the synergistic interaction of class powers, and not necessarily from the items. You'll want to get the numbers close, but if they aren't exact, it shouldn't matter too much. If I were doing this, I'd probably settle on about 3,000,000gp of cherry picked items and call it good.

YMMV and all that jazz...

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Why is it tricky? Hell, we DMs do exactly that every day when we build treasure parcels!

Just treat it like you would if you were putting them into your campaign. OK, some DMs have parties that want to just slug out with the nastiest nasty and charop and want nothing but bloodclaw weapons, well you can give them that then, but maybe the rest of us can figure what we would have REASONABLY given to a party. It can be done easily enough. Each PC needs 3 core items, so what are we going to give them?

Beyond that we'll pick. Some people can say what they think a player would want, and other people can say what they think the DM might actually give. Everyone do it with the idea in mind that the character is running in his or her main campaign. I can do that.

 

[KarinsDad]

@Stalker
I looked to powers you choose for your characters. You didn't missed any single power that gives boost to AC/NADs or penalty to attacks rolls. Also powers that give stunned/blinded conditions. I just asking why? You are trying to see how team that take such a powers will fight? I don't think that iconic characters wil have such optimization... Especially if they don't know how good are powers that give stunned/blinded/+AC,NADs bonuses/penalties to hit.

I've only looked at the Cleric powers, but they seem to be a fair representation, especially in the Encounter powers which will typically occur in every fight:

Encounter
Debuff: Break the Spirit
Heal: Mantle of Glory
Control: Thunderous Word
Damage: Solar Wrath

Daily
Control and Buff: Seal of Warding
Damage: Knight of Glory
Heal and Buff: Divine Power
Damage: Radiant Brilliance

Utility (most Dailies)
Buff: Bless
Heal: Bastion of Health (Encounter)
Heal: Mass Cure Light Wounds
Buff: Hallowed Ground
Heal: Healing Sun

Course, he hasn't picked his 22nd or 23rd level powers yet.

 

[Bayuer]

Look at the other ones. Leader is now of rolles that acctual need to have boosting powers. It's his role. Fighter got 3 powers that influence AC and NADs etc. Look by yourself.

@Stalker
There will be always problem how to choose powers. On every level there are 4 to choose from. You have in mind that this powers will be used to see the answer about the influence of powers on math at epic. If you use iconic then strike should take pure dmg powers and fighter that mark or hinder foes not NADs boosting powers. Treat this as just a note, not a problem anyway. I just can't wait to see how synergies goes live

 

[keterys]

Powers seem like a reasonable set on first glance. I don't see any bias that Bayuer is suggesting on quick skim. Not even a little bit.

I find Riposte Strike a slightly odd pick for the Rogue, but as long as the combats are actually played out instead of modeled I guess it's not too bad.

 

[Stalker0]

Powers seem like a reasonable set on first glance. I don't see any bias that Bayuer is suggesting on quick skim. Not even a little bit.

I find Riposte Strike a slightly odd pick for the Rogue, but as long as the combats are actually played out instead of modeled I guess it's not too bad.

I figured Riposte Strike would be the quintessential power for a brutal scoundrel rogue.

 

[keterys]

Oh, perhaps - it's just really difficult to mathematically model. Almost any damage you claim from it or attacks you claim it avoids would be suspect.

 

[Jhaelen]

Powers seem like a reasonable set on first glance. I don't see any bias that Bayuer is suggesting on quick skim. Not even a little bit.

I think Bayuer is just worried that by considering powers the results won't confirm his math, anymore

Just kidding, just kidding!