Confused with Fighter class features

[sfedi]

No, it's an interrupt. So you smack them and if they stop, they never move in the first place.

But the Combat Challenge Attack that is provoked by shifting doesn´t prevent the enemy from finishing it´s shift. Since it is not an AoO.

 

[Kordeth]

Make a Combat Challenge Attack (CCA): only on marked enemies, provoked by shifting (not moving) or making an attack that doesn´t include me, only one per turn, basic melee attack, doesn´t stop enemy from moving, nor does it benefit from AoO related feats or features.

You can only do this once per round, not once per turn.

AoO: provoked moving (not shifting) or making a ranged/area attack. Only one per turn, and can benefit from various feats and prevents enemy from moving.

Correct, although the pedant in me must point out that they're "opportunity attacks" (OAs) now, not "attacks of opportunity" (AoO).

Adyacent enemy (not marked)
Shifts - No
Moves - Provokes AoO
Attacks (non-ranged/area attack) you - No
Attacks (non-ranged/area attack) other - No
Makes ranged/area attack including you - Provokes AoO
Makes ranged/area attack NOT including you - Provokes AoO

Adyacent enemy (marked)
Shifts - Provokes CCA
Moves - Provokes AoO
Attacks (non-ranged/area attack) you - No
Attacks (non-ranged/area attack) other - Provokes CCA
Makes ranged/area attack including you - Provokes AoO
Makes ranged/area attack NOT including you - Provokes AoO and CCA

All correct.

So, an enemy can still avoid my AoO, by shifting (and provoking a CCA which doesnt´prevent moving) and then doing something else.

Yep.

This seems quite complex.

It's really a lot simpler than you're making it by enumerating out every single combination. The OA rules are simply that area or ranged attacks (without the Close descriptor) and movement out of a threatened square provoke. That doesn't change. Combat Challenge gives you a free attack if a marked enemy shifts or makes an attack that doesn't include you. Those are the only things you need to remember.

 

[grolch]

Not a "Read as Written" approach, but I find it a shame that one of the main fighter features can't take advantage of the other, not to mention the many feats involving swords.
Wrote a thread called "Combat challenge and the twfighter" at the same time as this, but basically the conclusion is that Combat Challenge should be rephrased to granting additional triggers to the opportunity attack rule, namely attacking others and shifting. and Combat Challenge only should be activated with fighter powers.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

As I just mentioned in a similar thread, this distinction can be helpful at times, since you CAN use both an OA and CCA in the same round.

For example, let's say an enemy tries to run past you, and you hit him with an OA and stop him in his tracks and marking him. If he moves again or even shoots you in the face with a crossbow, you can't do anything about it, because you've already used your OA... but if he tries to shift or attack someone other than you, you can still hit him with a CCA.

 

[Kordeth]

As I just mentioned in a similar thread, this distinction can be helpful at times, since you CAN use both an OA and CCA in the same round.

For example, let's say an enemy tries to run past you, and you hit him with an OA and stop him in his tracks and marking him. If he moves again or even shoots you in the face with a crossbow, you can't do anything about it, because you've already used your OA... but if he tries to shift or attack someone other than you, you can still hit him with a CCA.

This. Also, if you make Combat Challenge into an OA you turn the fighter from "front-line warrior who can keep enemies focused on him" to "nigh-impenetrable bulwark of whirling savagery." If Combat Challenge keyed off of OA-improving abilities, it would become pretty ridiculously powerful pretty quickly.

 

[grolch]

hmm, will have to playtest. My solution would probably be changing Combat superiority´s stop movement of "OA´s granted by moving (not shifting)" if I found it to be a problem
a possible modifier wis+2 (blade opportunist) possibly heavy blade opportunist to a melee basic attack you choose doesn't seem that overpowered.

what about the start of Combat Challenge "Every time you attack an enemy"? I think I would say it required a power from the fighter class, to avoid riposte strike, dragonborn breath and other silly uses

 

[Mirtek]

No, it's an interrupt. So you smack them and if they stop, they never move in the first place.

Actually that's not the case. An interrupt only means that it's going before the triggering action is completed. An interrupt does not automatically stopp the triggering action from being completed anyway, it only does so if the outcome of the interrupt makes the triggering impossible to complete (aka being out of reach after the interrupt or kill the enemy during the interrupt).

The attack against a shifting foe doesn't stop the shift (it's not part of combat superiority as it's not an AoO and thus does not stop moving).

All you get is a free attack and after the attack the enemy completes his shift and then has a standard action left to move further away

PS: I hope tha Complete Martial adds annother feat like Death Oath or something like that to turn the basic attacks from Combat Challenge into OAs

 

[Shabe]

Wait a minute, so is a dragborn fighter / fighter/wizard able to mark multiple opponents with a breath weapon/scorching blast?

I have ruled that he can as the rules are written.

 

[TimeOut]

Wait a minute, so is a dragborn fighter / fighter/wizard able to mark multiple opponents with a breath weapon/scorching blast?

I have ruled that he can as the rules are written.

Yes, he can.

 

[Chen_93]

If I have the shield push power (allows you to push an opponent you hit with your combat challenge attack), I assume this lets me interrupt marked opponents attacks against allies, and possibly make the attacks fail if I can knock them out of range, right?

Similarly, if an ally moves and provokes an OA from a marked opponent, I can interrupt the OA, push the opponent back causing the OA to fail (assuming the creature is now out of range of the ally). Does this count as a USE of the OA for that creature on that allies turn?