Confusion in Monk's Belt

[Slaved]

Your numbers are (as so many others tend to do) ignoring that it turns your hands into d8 weapons and gives +1 stunning fist per day. Not very useful for a sorceror, but you can't ignore them when pricing the item.

But since you do not get the improved unarmed strike feat you still provoke an attack of opportunity and do not threaten the area around you with it plus you only get the extra stunning attack if you have the feat which a character with poor base attack bonus does not qualify for until at least level 16.

So, it is very not useful in general but there could be times when it comes in handy. But those times seem so remote that the extra would not change the price much.

 

[Nail]

The difficulty - the poor design, really - with the Monk's belt is that it offers an open-ended bonus. The price is not the issue; the open-ended bonus to AC is.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

Your numbers are (as so many others tend to do) ignoring that it turns your hands into d8 weapons and gives +1 stunning fist per day. Not very useful for a sorceror, but you can't ignore them when pricing the item.

I just don't know what that is worth. Is that worth 11,000? you can get a +1 to armor for 2,000. so if d8 weapon that does damage as a monk of 5th level and 1 stunning fist worth 11,000? if not then it probably adds wis to ac while unarmed.

now heres a question. While you may do damage as a monk of 5th level, do you still provoke an attack of opportunity for the attack because you don't attack as monk. also is the damage leather or non lethal?

Really a monk belt is far more better for a monster then any pc. I think the price is balanced for a pc but not for monsters. Just Just as CR and LA are different and balance differently for the same abilities, so do does the monk belt.

 

[PallidPatience]

Monsters should be equipped as NPCs of their CR or not at all. Usually not at all, because no equipment is counted for the CR of most monsters. No matter what you equip them with, it will increase the CR. Exceptions are, of course, monsters that come with equipment, but only for the equipment listed.

 

[James McMurray]

the attacks deal lethal damage, because that's what a 5th level monk does. But without Improved Unarmed Strike you'll still provoke AoOs.

 

[evilbob]

Out of curiosity, what do you consider the class feature that allows the monk to add Wis bonus to AC to be called?

"Wisdom bonus to AC." It's part of their "AC bonus" which also includes an untyped bonus to AC, which could also be called an "AC bonus." In fact, the wisdom bonus, the untyped bonus, and both bonuses together could all be called a monk's "AC bonus," notwithstanding the fact that none of them actually provide an actual "AC bonus" - which the monk could get from wearing bracers of armor. At that point, the monk would have 3 different "AC bonuses" that all provided different bonuses to AC that all stacked.

You'll also notice that while the wisdom bonus is included under the description "AC bonus" in the monk's entry, nothing in the monk's table includes the term "AC bonus" except the column, which includes only the untyped AC bonus. I think it's pretty reasonable to assume that "AC bonus" - when talking about a monk's abilities - includes only the untyped bonus. However, as I said above, I also think it's pretty reasonable to assume that it includes both the wisdom and untyped bonuses. Either way, I think it's pretty easily backed up.

 

[Jhaelen]

The problem isn't the belt, the problem is the Monk class.

Monk/Ninja/... classes should be: Wis to AC, to a max of class level (ala Duelist/Invisible Blade/Bladesinger/...).

Sounds like a good fix to me.

 

[moritheil]

There are a lot of monsters that would become much fiercer if you were to pick different feats for them or give them more appropriate gear and magical items. This item is not unique there and if someone was to do the same with other gear there are lots of items which would be banned by similar reasoning.

Yeah, but those items aren't in question. Said monsters (assuming they equip gear) are going to be using those to full effect regardless of what the players would like. (Do you not optimize your encounters? If you don't, you're not allowing your players a chance to really test their builds.) The monk's belt, being open to interpretation, just happened to be a chance for them to dictate policy.

 

[moritheil]

is the damage leather or non lethal?

Downgrade leather damage!

 

[Slaved]

Yeah, but those items aren't in question.

But my point was that if you did put other items to the same question you would find that a great deal of the items out there would also need to be removed or changed. This item is not special or unique in that way.

The monk's belt, being open to interpretation, just happened to be a chance for them to dictate policy.

I do not mind a dungeon master making houserules in general, although there are some exceptions.

For this though I do not see any other interpretation having all that much weight. Much like I do not see a lot of weight for the interpretation that a +1 sword only gets the +1 to attack or +1 to damage but not both.

Like I said though, I do not mind houserules but I do like there to be a good reason for it. Saying that the houserule is there because the item could be abused if placed into the hands of monsters might take out half of the items available to characters if the trend continued. I would feel it was a bad precident that might lead to the game going downhill later on.

Now if the houserule was that the item in question cost half as much but only benefited characters with levels in monk I would not mind that at all. But that would still leave the issue of some creatures being able to take a level of monk and get all of the benefits while the class still being considered non-associated.