D&D General Conjure Animals 2024 - moving it & when does damage occur?

[Tessarael]

How do you handle the 2024 version of the Conjure Animals spell when it comes to moving the pack? Specific questions on this below.

1. The pack is intangible. So can other creatures move into its area? I presume so.

2. The pack is size Large and appears in an unoccupied space within the 60' range. As the pack is Large it normally takes a 10'x10' space. Can it be placed in a 5' wide corridor, or does the spell fail in such a case, because there is insufficient space? What about in a combat situation where the combatants are dense, and there's only a 5'x5' space available?

3. When you move the pack, you can move it 30' to an unoccupied space. When the pack moves within 10' of a creature you can see, or a creature you can see moves within 10' of the pack and ends its turn there, you can force it to make a Dexterity saving throw or it takes 3d10 slashing damage. This only occurs once per turn - you cannot make it save twice. So when you move it 30', does it magically appear at the new location, or does it travel between the two locations, damaging creatures along the way? The wording is ambiguous. The simplest answer is that it magically appears at the new location, and doesn't damage additional creatures in between.

4. Does the saving throw and damage inflicted by the pack occur on the turn when the pack first appears, or only on subsequent turns? I am assuming yes, otherwise the 2nd level spell Moonbeam (3d10 radiant damage when cast in a 3rd level spell slot) will often be a better spell than the 3rd level spell Conjure Animals. However, it is unclear from the text, as the "whenever the pack moves" text implies that the saving throw and subsequent damage if failed only occurs either when (a) the pack is moved, or (b) a creature enters a space within 10' of the pack.

5. As the pack is intangible, can it be moved through a wall? If the intangible pack teleports 30' to a new location, then I assume the answer is yes. If the pack has to move between locations, then maybe it needs to move around the wall.

Thoughts?

 

[plecostomus]

RE: #1 - You can look at Guardian of Faith for an example of a spectral entity/effect that occupies its space. Conjure Animals does not include the text that Guardian does about occupying its space.

 

[touc]

This is how I take it:

(1) Intangible. Unlike Unseen Servant, there is nothing of substance to this spell and it threatens and occupies nothing.

(2) Size. The general rule that spells are blocked from expanding by cover, such as a wall, applies unless specifically overridden by the spell. This spell has no override. So, if in a tight corridor the spell doesn't extend through a wall but there is nothing saying the spell ends. It simply has no effect through the wall.

However, when you first cast the spell, it needs to be a clear 10x10' (Large) "unoccupied space." The PHB defines an "occupied space" as one filled by a creature or "completely filled by objects." An object is specifically a "discrete" thing like a book or window and while the rules say an object is not a building, a building is defined as being comprised of many objects (this is really only relevant for certain spells that target objects...you can target an individual brick by itself but not a wall). I'd take this to read that while the spell is intangible, the casting origin needs to be obstruction free. No critters or walls (comprised of many bricks or stones that completely fill the spot), and DM discretion on whether things like trees are big enough or not to "completely fill" the square.

Finally, don't forget to think 3D. It conjures spectral intangible forces. If you're outdoors or in a big cavern, is there anything that says the spell is affected by gravity?

(3) Movement. The spell says explicitly that "when the pack moves within 10' of a creature you can see" saves are, at caster discretion, triggered. I don't see any ambiguity. The spell doesn't teleport, it moves, similar to how a Moonbeam spell moves. Unlike a Moonbeam, the spell is protected against friendly fire. For flavor, animals running makes more sense than animals teleporting.

(4) Saves. The spell answers this. Damage is only triggered, at caster discretion, (A) when the spell moves, (B) when a creature enters its area of effect, or (C) when a creature ends its turn in the area (e.g. is shoved into the area). I assume many casters would cast this spell first then move so they can maximize its effects.

(5) Intangible movement. The spell specifically says you can't move the pack to places you can't see. If you can't see around or through the wall, even if you know what's behind it, you can't move the pack there. If you had the ability to see through walls, then you could direct the intangible pack to move directly there because it has no substance.

 

[Tessarael]

Note that a Large creature can squeeze into a 5'x5' space, which is part of why I asked about a 5' wide corridor and cases in combat where there is not a 10'x10' unoccupied space available.

 

[Tessarael]

From a game mechanic simplicity perspective, it would have been much simpler if they had just made it 10' radius and avoided the need for an unoccupied space. Something like this:

Conjure Animals - level 3 Conjuration
Casting Time: Action
Range: 60 feet
Components: V, S
Duration: Concentration, up to 10 minutes

You conjure a pack of intangible nature spirits affecting a 15' radius around a spot that you can see. They do not occupy that space. You choose the spirits' animal form, such as wolves, serpents, or birds. You have advantage on Strength saving throws while in that area. When you move on your turn on subsequent turns after casting the spell, you can move the pack up to 30' to another position that you can see.

When the pack appears, is relocated, or when a creature moves into this spell's area of effect or ends its turn there, if you can see it, you can force that creature to make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, the creature takes 3d10 slashing damage. A creature makes this save and takes damage only once per round.

Using a Higher-Level Spell Slot: The damage increases by 1d10 for each spell slot level above 3.

Edit: I have made it 15' radius to match the 2024 PHB area of effect. The 2024 area of effect is 10' beyond the 10'x10' area where the pack is located (i.e., 5' inner radius for the size large pack, 15' total radius), 700 square foot in the outer area and 100 square foot in the inner area where the pack is located on a square grid. If 10' radius for the effect was used, it would only be 300 square foot on a square grid; with 15' radius it is 800 square foot area on a square grid.

 

[Tessarael]

[..]
(3) Movement. The spell says explicitly that "when the pack moves within 10' of a creature you can see" saves are, at caster discretion, triggered. I don't see any ambiguity. The spell doesn't teleport, it moves, similar to how a Moonbeam spell moves. Unlike a Moonbeam, the spell is protected against friendly fire. For flavor, animals running makes more sense than animals teleporting.

(4) Saves. The spell answers this. Damage is only triggered, at caster discretion, (A) when the spell moves, (B) when a creature enters its area of effect, or (C) when a creature ends its turn in the area (e.g. is shoved into the area). I assume many casters would cast this spell first then move so they can maximize its effects.

Bravo! That's quite a nasty use of the spell. I hadn't thought about casting the spell, having it affect creatures in that area, then moving it on the same turn and having it affect additional creatures in a different area on that first turn.

While consistent with the rules as written for the 2024 version of the Conjure Animals spell, I really think this and the issues discussed above show that the spell is not well-worded. I have tried above to specify very clearly how I think it should work.