D&D 5E (2014) Consequences of Failure

[Hussar]

Huh. Do you allow the player to change their plan, now that they know their attempt at forgery is probably not going to work?



By "here" do you mean in this narrative situation, or in conjunction with your preferred resolution mechanics? I assume not the former, because that is obviously false. And I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that different approaches to resolving challenges won't always mix well, so I'll agree with you on that one.

There’s nothing to change. If they tried again, they would get the same result.

I go a step further and simply use dice towers. You don’t know your result. Solves that problem.

But to turn it around, would you allow the arm wrestler to reroll?

And the point still stands. There is no fail condition for an opposed check.

 

[FrogReaver]

On the forgery issue:

If the player proposes that the character create, say, a forged document for later use to achieve X with the local government, that's easy to adjudicate: The document is created, provided the character has the requisite materials and time. No roll.

When the player later has the character present the forged document to the local government, it actually gets examined at which point the DM decides there is an uncertain outcome and a meaningful consequence for failure for an attempt to achieve X given the stated approach. If there is, then we roll the ability check.

Examine the situation before racing to ask for an ability check simply because the action smells like a tools use.

My players would examine their own document before presenting it to the government official.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Looks like you rolled a 1 on your helpfulness check. I don't think our DM allows rerolls.

I was helpful, I just misunderstood your intent and assumed you were actually trying to determine what some possible consequences were for a medicine check. Instead, you appear to have had a trap in mind. So, with that in mind, I'll answer the question more directly:

I don't know, you called for the check so what consequence for failure did you set?

 

[Hussar]

First, to be clear, you're arguing that the rules are wrong, not that I'm wrong. I'm quoting the rules there.

But regardless of that, the situation (and the DM) determine when rules are employed, including contests (which is what I believe you mean by "opposed checks") and that's when there's an uncertain outcome and a meaningful consequence for failure.

Also, you may be confusing "meaningful consequence for failure" with "something happens when the action fails." That might not be the case, especially in combat, where failure's meaningful consequence for failure is that you effectively "wasted" one of a finite number of turns.

Remember, as Umbran said, you have to examine the situation to determine if there's a meaningful consequence for failure, not necessarily the action.

You cannot fail a contest.

 

[Hussar]

On the forgery issue:

If the player proposes that the character create, say, a forged document for later use to achieve X with the local government, that's easy to adjudicate: The document is created, provided the character has the requisite materials and time. No roll.

When the player later has the character present the forged document to the local government, it actually gets examined at which point the DM decides there is an uncertain outcome and a meaningful consequence for failure for an attempt to achieve X given the stated approach. If there is, then we roll the ability check.

Examine the situation before racing to ask for an ability check simply because the action smells like a tools use.

No.

We roll a contest.

There is still no chance of failure.

There is a consequence of one side winning the contest but no consequence for losing.

 

[Ovinomancer]

So in case anyone cares to actually deal with the medicine question.

Suppose you are in a game with a diseased ally. You want to use medicine to heal him. I guess I also need to add, Suppose that the only thing the DM determines is uncertain about your approach is whether you will heal him.

How is that situation handled?

What's the approach?

 

[FrogReaver]

What's the approach?

I apply some medicine to him that I once read cured half the people in the town from a similar ailment but did nothing for the other half.

 

[iserith]

You cannot fail a contest.

That's good to know. My grappling bard "Immovable Rod" Manleigh never fails to grapple anyone, no matter how low I roll. I'm PMing my DM on Discord right now to let him know the good news!

 

[Guest 6801328]

There’s nothing to change. If they tried again, they would get the same result.

I go a step further and simply use dice towers. You don’t know your result. Solves that problem.

But to turn it around, would you allow the arm wrestler to reroll?

And the point still stands. There is no fail condition for an opposed check.

I wasn't asking if they could re-roll. By "change plan" I meant, could the player decide not use the forgery after all, since he/she knew it was unlikely to succeed.

 

[iserith]

No.

We roll a contest.

There is still no chance of failure.

There is a consequence of one side winning the contest but no consequence for losing.

What contest is that?