consequences of removing the character-based limit on daily magic items?

[Black Knight Irios]

But that will always be a problem in a game where some items are just flat out better than others. Part of what I perceive as the problem with the current system is that the element of choice is already there before you even add in the limit on MID use. The choice is "do I use this item now or in the next encounter?". The current system adds layer of overall limits per day and can create a climate where players hoard item use.

Then the question is, why bother to get items with "useless" MIDs?

Players tend to hoard daily powers (class powers) because there could come this one encounter where they will need them; should I make those powers encounter powers, so that they will stop worrying/hoarding?

It's hard for me to say if this houserule is balanced. Players can nova with daily powers and then nova with daily items in the next encounter. That's the most obvious scenario I can see. I just don't know if that's going to be overly abusive.

The level of abuse depends on your players...

I like this much better. INT is what I came up with quickly, and could be a fun way to differentiate INT from DEX (dex gets the nice side benefit of initiative bonus). Your way does seem more fair though.

More fair, as I said.

 

[OchreJelly]

Then the question is, why bother to get items with "useless" MIDs?

Players tend to hoard daily powers (class powers) because there could come this one encounter where they will need them; should I make those powers encounter powers, so that they will stop worrying/hoarding?

You know I bet the Devs had gone back and forth on this same sort of discussion before coming up with their present system. Hoarding for the final encounter is also a valid point. The question becomes: "do two encounters of novaing or one encounter of "supernovaing" (powers + items) hurt you game?" If as a DM you can say "no", then you could use one of the house rules discussed here if you were inclined to change things.

And it's really not so much that players have one good item and a bunch of useless ones, although the game itemization does indeed say players will have a range of high and lower level items as they progress through levels. It's more a case where some item powers will naturally be valued more and see more use at the expense of others. Not that it's a bad thing, just an observation.

Personally I'm not changing anything in my current game, but have thought about doing changes like the OP said. If the players want to see more item use then I may consider trying a house rule.

 

[mattdm]

Then the question is, why bother to get items with "useless" MIDs?

A very good question, and another key part of the problem as I see it. The example of the campfire and the warhammer is not fictitious. The issue is exactly the same as wizard's "utility" powers in 3E — why would you choose to memorize them in the morning when you can have fireball? 4E intentionally addresses this with a separate space for utility powers, and an even more separate space for rituals.

Daily magic items have no such distinction, which means interesting flavorful magic items invariably lose out when put up against lifesaving or high-damage daily-power items. Adding in some sort of categorization rule might be a possibility — maybe only limiting daily powers which are attacks, or the idea someone mentioned of different rules for wondrous items — but since that's more to keep track of I'm not terribly excited about it.

The level of abuse depends on your players...

Yeah, and I'm not terribly worried about that in my group, especially if I spell it out like this: you don't like this 4E rule, but it's here for this reason. If we can act sensibly without the rule in place, I'm willing to drop it.

You know I bet the Devs had gone back and forth on this same sort of discussion before coming up with their present system. Hoarding for the final encounter is also a valid point. The question becomes: "do two encounters of novaing or one encounter of "supernovaing" (powers + items) hurt you game?" If as a DM you can say "no", then you could use one of the house rules discussed here if you were inclined to change things.

I think in general novaing does hurt the game, although I'm more worried about the temptation to use everything in the first encounter than the issue of saving everything for the big boss. In fact, if they know they're facing a big enemy soon and are planning for it, that's a good thing (and I can make the encounter a bit more challenging to compensate). And I've been springing enough nighttime attacks on them that they know they can't necessarily use all of their reserves just because the in-game sun is going down and it's bedtime soon — so, I hope it won't be a habit.

(If it does come down to the players get used to doing that and then complain that I'm not letting them rest up sufficiently afterward, well, then it's time to go back to the out-of-game talk.)